FCPX 10.0.9 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION

Ripple Training is the best Resolve training. Alexis Van Hurkman knows his stuff, works vary closely with BMD on Resolve. No one knows it better than Alexis. And he is one of the best trainers I've ever worked with.

BenB wrote: Ripple Training is the best Resolve training. Alexis Van Hurkman knows his stuff, works vary closely with BMD on Resolve. No one knows it better than Alexis. And he is one of the best trainers I've ever worked with.

Have you looked at ColorGradingCentral with Denver Riddle?
Personally I think his Free FCPX color training is well focused, detailed,, easy for even a novice to grasp.
I like Ripple Training's tutorials generally but I do wonder how they compare.

And we'll get to see if Apple fills some of the holes in FCPX's built in color grading as I suspect they will by the time of the MacPro specific upgrade.

I actually joined Color Grading Central when it first started. Unfortunately- shortly after BMD released Resolve 9, which was enough of an interface exchange that I wasn't motivated to get into Denver's existing library of tutorials, which were all Resolve 8 based at the time.

Denver's X tutorials are quite good, and I hav econsidered joining again. But since I'm looking for an all in one starter course just to get my feet wet, I thought the RippleTraining course might be a better way to jump in.

At NAB, the BMD guys also recommended Tao of Color- which seems very involved from what I can gather from the site.

Having watched the Media Composer 7 videos what really struck me was how they are nailing collaborative editing along with audio round tripping. i.e. they have their Interplay-Sphere thing going on and have really beefed up the round tripping too Pro Tools 11.

Now if Apple could just address these areas and for a fraction of the price I think that they would do more than ruffle some feathers :blink:

Unquestionably collaborative editing and sound remain the two most obvious areas of development for X.

But Avid has been building on largely the same foundation for over a decade- slowly recoding portions of the software over many releases. I might be wrong about this, but its been my impression that there's a rats nest of legacy programming at the core of Avid that might eventually hamper development. Or perhaps that was solved over the last year or two- I'm not sure.

Apple definitely took the more radical route. Basically hitting the reset button and starting from scratch with a new modern code base. Unfortunately that means they don't get to leverage the decade of legacy FCP development.

So far, features that have been added back have been rethought and largely improved. We can only hope that this continues as the dev team work its way thru the "to do" list.

As a long time Avid guy I would have to agree with the previous statement, Avid has years of legacy code to work with. But I also see that as a huge disadvantage. Avid is like one of those old European cities that is built upon 10 old cities underneath. And like those cities I am sure it makes it a complete nightmare when you want to update any of the underlying infrastructure.

Personally, I think Apple need to address the audio issue first and foremost. Give me an app like Logic that I can export an XML to and do my sweetening in. Yes, doing it all on the timeline in X is possible, it's just not all that efficient.

I'd be just as happy if they'd get off the dime and launch a new version of logic (its been 4 years?) that could open an FCPX project directly and sweeten the audio that way too. But, they need to include better noise reduction in to the bargain. The current automated system is not all that good and is something I need to use a lot because I'm recording live events with nasty background noises like air conditioners etc.

m2dpost wrote: As a long time Avid guy I would have to agree with the previous statement, Avid has years of legacy code to work with. But I also see that as a huge disadvantage. Avid is like one of those old European cities that is built upon 10 old cities underneath. And like those cities I am sure it makes it a complete nightmare when you want to update any of the underlying infrastructure.

Personally, I think Apple need to address the audio issue first and foremost. Give me an app like Logic that I can export an XML to and do my sweetening in. Yes, doing it all on the timeline in X is possible, it's just not all that efficient.

There was an email doing the rounds, at the time of FCPXs release, from an ex Avid engineer which claimed that they had tried to do something similar to FCPX, but when the top brass saw it they nearly fainted. They where kindly thanked for their efforts but, they could not release it because it would upset their client base too much. Missed opportunities and all that...

Dave_EP wrote: I'd be just as happy if they'd get off the dime and launch a new version of logic (its been 4 years?) that could open an FCPX project directly and sweeten the audio that way too. But, they need to include better noise reduction in to the bargain. The current automated system is not all that good and is something I need to use a lot because I'm recording live events with nasty background noises like air conditioners etc.

Lets see what happens when they release the new Mac Pro... :whistle:

Watching the Avid 7 video I realized how messy that program is. I've been using Avid for years but I had zero desire to use that program after that demonstration.

There have been several reports over the last year that Apple is working on "LogicX". And my personal belief is that its taking so long because precisely because they don't want another FCPX style reception- so they're going to let it cook as long as it needs to before release. Hopefully it will be ready this year.

Its always tricky when taking about how "deep" the toolset should be in an NLE for things like Audio, Color Correction, or Graphics/Compositing. An NLE is never going to be the tool of choice at the high end of any of those disciplines. So there's a large grey area for how much is enough for those happy to stay in the editor- whether its because of time, budget, or skill-set; and when are you adding features that are sort of useless because anyone working at that level is just going to be round-tripping to ProTools, Resolve, Smoke, anyway. That line is going to be different for every editor, as we'll as for the developers of every platform. If Apple is going to position LogicX as a more direct ProTools competitor, or the new Soundtrack Pro, then there's definitely going to be a glass ceiling for audio editing and mixing within FCPX. If Apple is able to make getting from one to the other and back a simple and seamless process, then we could see the audio toolset in X remain fairly basic. However if the thinking is that round tripping to a DAW is only for really high end work- I we could see a more substantial growth of the built in audio tools in X.

And here in lies the rub when dealing with Apple. First I will preface by saying that I like FCPX and it has become my editor of choice, I think Apple has raised the bar and continues to do so. However... The Apple mind set of playing everything so close to the chest becomes a very real problem for me in a professional environment.

I really need a good way to get to a solid audio editing application for sweetening. I am hoping for a new Logic with solid round tripping from FCPX. However I can't wait for much longer and will need to pull the trigger on something soon. If I knew for sure that Apple was doing something with Logic, or a new Sound Track Pro, I could find a way to wait out the hassle of doing it in FCPX for just a bit longer. But with no information what so ever when that time comes I will just go to ProTools and X2Pro to make it work. They basically will have lost a sale, and the revenue that goes with it, because of their propensity for secrecy.

Now mind you in a world of consumer electronics I understand the mind set keeping releases quiet. Why undercut your current product with the promise of a new one. But in the situation of Logic this mindset is illogical (Pun Intended!!) What the hell are they going to undercut? Are people streaming to purchase a 4 year old version of the current Logic? I doubt it. They are probably losing more sales to Pro Tools then they would to people not buying a current version of Logic while waiting for the new version. Apple, let me know what the plan is in this situation so that I can plan for further purchase. I would much rather stay in your walled garden where things are designed to work together. But you have to let me know from time to time what you have planted in the garden.

Well with this, you still don't know when, but if this can be of any comfort to you, Apple confirmed in December 2012 that they are working on a new version of Logic:

www.macrumors.com/2012/12/03/apple-hard-...ersion-of-logic-pro/

Well. As the pre-announcement of FCPX features and more recently the MacPro sneak peak at WWDC has shown, Apple will occasionally give us a peak under the kimono as it were- when it makes sense.

The demoing of the MacPro at WWDC made total sense. That's the kind of niche product that's not going to get any stage time at a more consumer focused Apple event. If they didn't demo it now- they wouldn't get another opportunity this fall.

Although I'd love a nice beefy X update soon, if Apple has plans for a big "Pro" push in the fall when the MacPro launches- with big updates for Final Cut, Motion, and Logic- I'd be happy to wait.

The thing I don't get- is since its so easy for Apple to distribute its own targeted events via aTV and the web: is why Apple doesn't do more targeted keynotes for these niche products. Especially since Apple has made a point of walking away from trade shows like NAB in an official capacity- where these products are traditionally launched. There's just no forum for Apple to launch and demo a product like LogicX or FCPX 10.1.

I'm kind of happy with the silent approach of Apple. I prefer this to companies that announce spectacular new things but fail to stand up to the internet hype they create. Or even worse, if you look at the Adobe CC debacle.

But I agree that in the case of Logic it's a very long and uncertain wait. Yet, like Sidderke pointed out, Apple said they are working on it. Just like they said they were going to re-install multicam and other "pro" features in FCPX very fast, just like they said they were working on a new MacPro. So I'm quite confident we will get some kind of "Final Cut Studio" back. Maybe not the way anyone expects, but that's about the only thing can you be relatively sure of with Apple

And there is the job posting Apple had at the start of the year for a senior audio programming engineer, that said "to support existing infrastructure" and to develop audio support for "video production applications like Final Cut Pro X".

I'll give ya the first one of if an Apple person really stated it. But the fact that someone saw a want ad for a certain type of programer is reading tea leaves at best, certainly not something I could base a business decision on.

Again I do like Apple and their products, but this is a part of their culture that needs to change when dealing with professionals. Keep the iPad and iPhone buyers in the dark all ya want, but let professionals users know what the road map is so we can base business decisions off of it.

m2dpost why no go with ProTools?

I agree Apple should be starting to give us a raod map of there pro-side products.
Yeah who cares about there iToys (iPhone and iPad) as long they make money to back up there sales right?

10 old cities underneath. And like those cities I am sure it makes it a complete nightmare when you want to update any of the underlying infrastructure.

I hear you

I've been using Avid for years but I had zero desire to use that program after that demonstration.

Personally I can not get past the editing modes in Avid they do my head in. But it is interesting to hear the interface is way to messy argument. I have the same feeling with photoshop!

And back to the foundations. In the AVID MC 7 video when referring to LUTs they say that the Meta Data is built into a Side car. I said in a another post in here that for me Meta Data is the car in FCPX. Period. So whilst I think that AVID are putting up a very admirable fight I think that in the long run they have a very serious disadvantage. My Mantra, Meta Data, Meta Data & more Meta Data,

With all the things mentioned here about integration and round trips with whatever application the main thing is that Apple needs to create a reliable and public documented XML structure along with some hooks for third parties to communicate with FCPX.
Alex Gollner pointed out with a simple example why XML does play such a big role in the game.
The "hooks" are basic as well. If Apple doesn't supply hooks with in their own eco system, how could third parties or developers do.
Some people said if a 3rd party app is not able to read/write XMLs for FCPX it's a bug within the 3rd party developer's tool. I totally disagree. Most if not all those developers are serious developers (this includes Apple). All of those (this includes Apple again) can only work with those things allowed/doable by FCPX's interchange options and hooks.

Some users do have complicated workflows others don't have, both of them may look straight forward, but also both of them might be not.

-Andreas