Full Spec Imac versus "NEW" Mac Pro ($3000+tax Entry Level System)

It's ok. Again- as far as I know you cannot split thunderbolt within the chain. The maximum TB ports on any TB device (other than the host computer) is 2 for pass-thru to the next device in the chain.

I see that the Thunderbolt ports issue could be a real pain.

What are your thoughts on the 6 core mac pro vs. totally maxed out 27" iMac? We don't do/need 4K capabilities. With the MP, need to purchase another monitor or two, so that brings the price over $5K.

I think at this point the best thing to do is wait for application specific benchmarks. The only ones we have right now are for the Maxed out version of Apple's MacPro website.

I want to buy Day 1, but I'm probably going to wait at least a week until some info percolates out.

The Thunderbolt port issue on an iMac is a big problem for video people. The problem is that it replaces too many things while only having TWO. I think the new iMacs are great, and I have one, but why oh why didn't they at least put an HDMI port back there?? Most of us run at least a second monitor and still have a lot of drives with firewire, not to mention go out to a box for broadcast monitoring or fibre channel or expansion box. As of now, I'm running a second monitor from a USB display adapter! It's a bit laggy but it works. If anyone knows of a better solution, let me know. Even my rMBP has an HDMI out!

The six Thunderbolt ports on a Mac Pro are a great relief.

It's always been the case that the upper end of desktop chips from Intel match - or even exceed - the lower end of server CPUs. So I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a specced-up iMac beat out the entry-model Mac Pro on CPU performance. However, there are two factors to consider which I don't think have been mentioned in this thread.:

Firstly: (and correct me if I'm wrong) the iMac uses the mobile-class 780m rather than the desktop-class 780. I don't know the ins and outs here, but cursory inspection suggests the 780m delivers OpenCL scores about half those of the desktop 780. At this stage, we don't know how the D300/500/700 cards in the Mac Pro will compare, but they should be closer to the desktop models.

Secondly: one of the big benefits of a Mac Pro has traditionally been long-term stability and system longevity. My own Pro was a 2008 model which I bought ex-display when the 2009 'upgrade' was underwhelming. I've worked it hard ever since, and it's proved to be an absolute tank of a system. My MacBook Pros, for one reason or another, haven't survived anything like as well.

For many people - me included - the iMac may well be the better choice, particularly if the screen has value to you. But I fully expect the Mac Pro to completely trounce the iMac on GPU-bound tasks, which includes video editing.

Comparing the two cards of the Imac with the 780M and a AMD D300

We know the AMD D300 has
1280 Stream Processors
Core Clock 800
Memory Clock 1250
256-bit memory bus width
160 GB/s memory bandwidth
2 GB Vram GDDR5





check here for the stats
architosh.com/2013/10/the-mac-pro-so-wha...way-we-have-answers/


The Nvidia GTX 780M
1536 CUDA Cores
823+ Core Clock Boost (MHz)
2500 Memory Clock
256 -bit memory bus width
160 GB/s memory bandwidth
4 Gb GDDR5



Check here
www.geforce.com/hardware/notebook-gpus/g...-780m/specifications

The memory on the GTX780m is twice as fast.
Faster Core Clock
More streams

So it not really about comparing a GTX 780 to a GTX 780M its d300 vs 780M.

But there are Two D300 so we really need to Cinebench the two to really know the real story.

For me the GTX 780M performs like a BEAST.

It's an interesting conundrum. I'm faced with the prospect of replacing my ageing MacPro 2.1 with either a maxed-out iMac or a new MacPro. I've also got to replace my Multibridge Pro i/o device and move up to Thunderbolt storage from the raid/FW setup I have at the moment. So I'm looking at the difference between £2.5k for a maxed out iMac, with another .7K on the TB Multibridge, .5K on the storage (G-Raid for now) and maybe .7K for a second TB screen instead of a Belkin to give me a) more real estate and b) extra FW and TB connectivity. BUT if I go for the NMP I'll need screen adaptors to run my two ageing (but so far perfectly good) Cinema Displays, and I'll be left with half a machine (OK an old MacPro with some video IO peripherals) so it really is swings and roundabouts. For me with my needs (largely docu based, not a lot of FX, work from home on this kit so time less of an issue) I'm still leaning toward the iMac - but we'll see when it's out I guess...

Same conundrum. I think the deciding factor will be the this: the next version of FCPX (10.1) is supposed to be optimized for the new Mac Pro. Need to know what that optimization entails and think that will be the deciding factor. My guess is that 10.1 will be written to take advantage of the dual GPUs. What kind of practical benefit that confers is the real question.

But the optimization could lie in something else entirely. Guess we now have to wait another week to find out.

It still might happen today Apple is on West coast time.

I believe Apple takes purchases back within 14 days no questions asked.

Hmmmm I have till this Saturday....

Topher5 wrote: So it not really about comparing a GTX 780 to a GTX 780M its d300 vs 780M.

...and the D300 appears to be a mildly down-clocked 7870, yes. Down-clocked to meet the thermal limits imposed by Mac Pro cooling, presumably.

It's extremely hard to compare Nvidia and AMD architectures on paper specs. Traditionally Nvidia's OpenCL performance has lagged AMD's, despite the apparently-higher stream processor counts.

I'm not sure how much I believe this site, but: comparison of AMD 7870 (roughly a D300) with Nvidia GTX780M . From that, it looks like the 780m will give the D300 a decent battle, at least until OpenCL is involved. Impressive, but then the new Mac Pro has two D300s. Ouch.

Which brings me back to my other point: for how long do you intend to use the system? If you're planning on a 2 to 3 year replacement cycle, the iMac is extremely tempting. But on a 3-4(-5?) year cycle I suspect the Mac Pro starts to make more sense, particularly the 6-core/D500 model, which I expect to significantly outsell the 4-core/D300 model. All these systems are about $1000/year on that basis, ignoring monitor costs.

I agree the Mid Level Mac Pro looks to be a whole different ball game.

Will I edit for more that three years on my Imac?
No...
I will probably get a Mac Pro (6 core).
When the Mac Pro will be tried tested and true.
And hopefully a bit cheaper for that matter.

Don't forget to calculate the "Wife factor".

Martinique or MAC PRO.

Trust me there's a hidden cost.

It's all about the GPU, the GPU.
I hope they are released soon! If they are available before the 15th then we all pick 8 of them up!

So what is a D300
The D300 is a Pitcairn-based GPU, just like the AMD FirePro W7000. Of the three GPU options on the new Mac Pro only the D300 features a narrower 256-bit memory bus with a 160 GB/s memory bandwidth.

We feel that the D300 is in essence the W7000 but with half the VRAM. The actual W7000 comes with 4 GB not 2 GB like the D300. Essential key specs include:

1280 Stream Processors (texture mapping units/unified shaders)
256-bit memory bus width
160 GB/s memory bandwidth
2 GB Vram GDDR5
The D300 provides 2 teraflops of single precision compared to 2.4 for the W7000. Could this again be because of core clock differences? Has AMD provided D-series FirePros with slightly dialed down clocks for thermal temperature reasons?

Amazon has FirePro W7000 cards retailing at 649.USD. Apple is providing essentially two of these or approximately 1,200.USD in GPU value in the baseline Mac Pro.

Importantly, although the D300 is Pitcairn-based while the other two are Tahiti based, both are apart of the 28-nm architecture series and both are Graphics Core Next (GCN) Architecture.

architosh.com/2013/10/the-mac-pro-so-wha...way-we-have-answers/

Heres the important Thing
The Nvidia GTX 780 supports up to OpenGL 4.3 while the D300 only supports OpenGL 4.2.
OpenGL is the key the inner workings of OpenCL.

Apple uses the GTX 780 at OpenGL 4.1 while it can do so much more.

support.apple.com/kb/HT5942?viewlocale=en_US

Will Apple ever give the 780 a firmware update?

Am I right in thinking that the 6 core is actually 6 cores + 6 hyper thread cores, which shows up as 12 cores on the system, just like a quad i7 looks like 8 cores?

Yes

More power across the board.
The new Mac Pro delivers up to 12 processing cores (up to 24 virtual cores)

But hyper-threaded virtual cores adds only around 10% boost.

But 10% is a lot when it's up to 24 virtual cores.

Let me say that again 24 virtual cores.

www.apple.com/ca/mac-pro/performance/

Hypothetically, if there were no new MacPro coming out, would the top of the line IMac be the fastest Mac to edit on? The 3.5Ghz i7, 32GB, 3TB Fusion, NVIDIA GTX 780M, for around $3,000.00? That wouldn't suck right?

I'm coming from a slightly mopey MacPro Early 2008 and need to get something new before the end of the year, It's looking like there might not be time to see any real world tests. Also, realistically I don't think I'll be doing any serious 4K work yet. Never mind 16 angles of 4K.

Anyone with this machine who LOVES it? I'd like to get it and get back to work. Ha