TOPIC:

Hi all, working on a music video, and I've mostly got it sorted, the schtick is using Pixel film studio's motion tracker for projecting the subjects onto the backgrounds like this: www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zozyj0dxkimj50f6e...2aohs2kwmjag5rl&dl=0

Here are my questions:

1. any glaring general video production moves that I should be thinking about in this vid from the more trained eyes around here? example: color being off, or too many gigaschlops on the dohickey, or whatever. Some of you may remember that I'm a music guy learning video.

2. FCPX takes a looooong time to complete background tasks when I open the project, like 15 minutes or more. And while it's doing this, playback, and the audio playback even, is very jumpy. Anything I can do to alleviate this? I'm working on an m1 mac mini, and I have a separate project in which I've removed the background, cartoonized and decimated the frame rate on the performance clips. I then exported all the clips i needed as apple prores 4444. and re-imported into this project, so this particular music video project doesn't have to struggle with those plugins at least. (I needed the 4444 as I understand that's the only file type that won't print with the black background, so i can easily overlay. Unfortunately that means the files are yuuuge.). In general, playback on this project is pretty jumpy too.

Thanks all!
Geoff

Did you use ProRes4444 because you wanted transparent alpha channels?

HEVC will give alpha channels and very small file sizes.

Puzzled by the handheld look of the wavering background . . . is that intentional?

I think I may need to elaborate on my comments about HEVC.

A very short test clip I made was 84 MB in ProRes 4444 and only 3 MB in HEVC

One problem is that if you export HEVC from FCP you will NOT get an alpha channel (transparency) so you have to use QT Player. The process is as follows.

1. Export your video as usual in ProRes 4444

2. Open the ProRes file in QT Player and select File/Export as/1080p or 4K etc.

3. In the window that appears select "Use HEVC" and "Preserve Transparency"

4. Click "Save" and wait for your small video file to be processed.

Job done!

Thx once again, inbro!

I'm not sure what alpha channels are, I had asked somewhere (maybe here? I don't remember!) about how to do this, and someone told me I needed 4444 exports to preserve the background transparency, but I guess I can give it a spin with the HVEC type and see if that works. Mostly this task is all done at this point though.

Regarding the hand shake, it's semi-unintentional. I may try to use the stabilization later on some clips, but it does weird things to the projection plugin, so I'll probably need to render, and maybe even export/re-import, before I do that.

I do like that the handheld shots preserve the look of "projecting" the performer onto the flat backgrounds though. If the background were still, I could possibly achieve the same thing with just an overlay and the transform tool, but it seems like it'd be more work, haha. But I wonder if it would look less projected if the background shots were done from a tripod?

BTW, the main problem with the playback this morning, and maybe the background tasks too, was that my machine had chosen to connect to the network via the quite spotty wifi out in my studio, rather than the carefully laid out, beautiful, high-speed, wired 2.5Gb ethernet connection. I dunno why it sometimes defaults to that after a restart.

Silly Apple!

Glad to hear your mac has regained its normal speed.
An alpha channel is quite simply a transparent background that lets other video clips show through . . . all the titles have one which is why you can superimpose them over a different background.

gotcha, thanks!

Now there's a new problem: fcp keeps crashing when I open the project. trying to sort out what's up.

The project is 160GB according to finder, but I imagine ppl often work on large projects like this? And the symptom might be slow behavior or something rather than crashes?

I've tried trashing preferences, opening from a backup up to a couple of hours before the last project was saved, both still crash the project.

I created a new project within the library and was able to open that without crashes, so it seems tied to the timeline/project. duplicating the project also crashes FCP.

Any ideas?? I am very fearful that I will have to start all over again!

I'd suggest selecting the problematic Project/timeline in the Browser and exporting it as XML, so that you have something to work with (hopefully).

You could also try selecting the Project in the Browser and choosing (holding option) Clip->Verify and Repair Project.

After doing those steps, you could try creating a new Library and import the XML for the Project and see if that works.

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Are you storing media inside the Library? Do you have background rendering turned on? Which version macOS and FCP are you using? Type of Mac and memory amount? You could download and run EtreCheck Pro for a more general diagnosis of your computer and drives. Where is everything stored? Type of drives, their connections, etc.?

It may be that the slowdowns you encountered were a warning sign. If you can recall as much detail as possible surrounding the timeframe that the slowdowns started, it could be helpful. Have you taken any training for FCP, or have you studied the basics of media organization and management? Without (self-) training and adequate knowledge of how FCP works and how best to use it, you will inevitably run into issues, especially for larger or more complex Projects...

If you can locate and zip any crash or diagnostic logs, and post them somewhere, someone here may be able to take a look and try to see what's been happening.

ok here are the details of my setup:

mac mini M1, 2020, 16GB ram, running ventrura. connected via 2.5GBe LAN to a QNAP Network storage which houses my FCP projects. I typically work off of this drive both on the M! mini, and from a 2015 MBP over wifi, which is of course slower, but sometimes more convenient

I believe I am storing the media inside the library - when I import it appears in a little sub folder under the main library, so I assume that's where it stores it.

I'll give your suggestions re: repairing the project and/or exporting an XML and reconstructing a spin. Here's also the crash log that osx generated when FCP crashed: app.box.com/s/q8o8wn32oltowt2c4cgt3o012r6d4j2l

I've a pretty basic understanding of FCP and the file structures. Are there any recommended tutorials out there for noobs like me?

Thanks!

The system log file in the archive you uploaded seems to indicate a possible issue with video I/O. Do you have an external or second display, use a dock, or video I/O device? Here's the line that is flagged by Digital Rebellion's Crash Analyzer:

2023-09-17 06:22:01.405472-0700 0xfddf Default 0x0 3922 0 Final Cut Pro: (CoreMediaIO) [com.apple.cmio:] CMIO_DAL_System.cpp:829:ObjectsPublishedAndDied Dying 87

@joema is the log-analyzing expert for the forum. Perhaps, he'll see this and take a look if he has time.

Interesting. Yeah, I do have two displays - one connected to the HDMI port, and one connected through one of the Thunderbolt ports. Both displays seemed to be working fine though.

I do have a video Input device, an elgato HDMI->USB converter, which I use for live streaming music shows with OBS. it's connected to the machine, but I wouldn't even know how to use it with fcp at all, or indeed if it even can be used with fcp.

Your system logs show a lot of plugin-related errors. I can't tell which plugins are causing it, but there are many listed: Pixel Film Studios and AU plugins from Antares, Boz Digital Labs, Celemony, Fabfilter, Garritan, FutureAudioWorkshop, Kush Audio, MeterPlugs, MasteringTheMix, Native Instruments, NoiseWorks, Non-Lethal Applications, oeksound, Universal Audio, Sound Radix, Soundtheory, SoundToys, Slate Digital, Spitfire Audio, Valhalla DSP, Vital Audio, WavesFactory, and iZotope RX8, RX9 and RX10.

There are also some security-related exceptions:
"[com.apple.securityd:security_exception] MacOS error: -67028"

which equates to the symbolic error errSecCSBadBundleFormat, "The bundle format is unrecognized, invalid, or unsuitable." It might be a code-signing error from running an old or unsigned plugin.

If your data or libraries are on the QNAP server, one troubleshooting approach is try putting them on a local hard drive.

My ignorance is huge and I have never heard of all your QNAP type gubbins.
They sound exotic, expensive and complicated and one thing I have always distrusted is something that is complex as by its very nature there is more to go wrong.

So I have always stuck to simple, cheap solutions like external SSDs or HDDs as a means of keeping problems at bay. Accessing video files via wi-fi sounds a very risky and inefficient method but as I said I have great areas of ignorance so my scepticism may be unfounded.

@gdgross, it might not hurt to disconnect some devices as part of your troubleshooting, especially ones you're not using while editing video (at least until you sort out the issue).

I would agree with @joema and @inbro (is that you, Luis?) about the QNAP server and the various multitudes of plugins you have installed as both being potential sources of the crashes and slowdowns.

Your QNAP server, whether accessed via Ethernet or WiFi may work well for audio/music, but video can be a very different thing. There may be some settings you might be able to change to make the QNAP more compatible with video work.

I know that some audio plugins, even some newer versions, are not compatible with FCP. Someone else who is a heavy audio plugin user has also run into issues (I can't point to the thread/topic off-hand). Older plugins may run in Rosetta mode, which isn't always robust or stable. I'd suggest you check all of your plugins, and various drivers, to make sure they're compatible with the version of macOS you're using, as well as with Apple Silicon based Macs. Older, "FXPlug3" style plugins may be unstable on M1 or M2 hardware and more recent macOS versions.

Even if you don't actively use some of the plugins, they are "referenced" by the OS or by FCP and can cause slowdowns or instabilities, especially older or incompatible ones. A solution might be to use something like Digital Rebellion's Pro Maintenance Tools, which include a Plugin Manager. Another option would be to install all of the numerous audio-related plugins under a separate user account (rather than globally), so that they don't show up when FCP is running. Either solution will take a bit of work.

You should consider having a local SSD set up for storing render files. By storing media, temp files (including render files) on a network drive (inside the Library), it's not uncommon to run into performance issues. It's often preferable to store media, render files, etc. outside of the Library file. In fact, it may be better to have the Library file itself located on a fast SSD or your internal drive. Again, network storage, unless it's 10 Gb Ethernet or faster could be a limiting factor.

Multiple monitors also use bandwidth and a significant portion of the RAM in M1/M2 Macs (all RAM is shared, i.e., there is no separate VRAM).


Cheers.

Regarding Rosetta mode, sometimes vendors of incompatible x86 plugins will instruct users how to run FCP itself in Rosetta mode, which then enables an x86 plugin. That can be possible since FCP is a Universal app, and the package contains both x86 and Apple Silicon binaries. However, that can degrade FCP performance and is generally not reliable. Even if Finder "Get Info" doesn't show an option to run in Rosetta, there are command-line procedures that might achieve that. To inspect if that has been done, in Activity Monitor's CPU tab, examine the "Kind" column. If it says "Apple" it's running as Apple Silicon. If it says "Intel", it's running under Rosetta.

Sometimes vendors of incompatible x86 plugins will also instruct users how to exploit a loophole of running the plugin within an emulated Rosetta container process. That should generally not be done and often produces unreliable or slow behavior. However if the plugin vendor is willing to handle all possible support issues that arise from this, including isolating the problem cause in unclear areas, I suppose that is their prerogative.


Normally the customer will know if they've done one of these steps, but sometimes they just follow a cryptic list of steps or run some utility provided by the plugin vendor. If there is any suspicion that has happened, I'd suggest inspecting Activity Monitor's CPU tab, sort by the "Kind" column, and inspect all process names which are "Intel".

joema wrote:

Regarding Rosetta mode, sometimes vendors of incompatible x86 plugins will instruct users how to run FCP itself in Rosetta mode, which then enables an x86 plugin.
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If there is any suspicion that has happened, I'd suggest inspecting Activity Monitor's CPU tab, sort by the "Kind" column, and inspect all process names which are "Intel".

Joe, thanks for the added insights. For those of us still running "obsolete" Intel-Macs, it's not something we've had to deal with yet...

Thanks joema.

I'm pretty sure I know which plugin is causing the most issues, as it's the main one I'm using for the look of this video: pixel film's auto tracker. it's a motion tracker plugin that allows you to superimpose a clip or image on top of another clip, while following the motion of that clip. I'm using it to make it appear like the musicians are projected onto walls, etc. That's also the reason for the handheld shots: I want to maintain the perception of performances being projected onto a background. If the background clips were still, and I just superimposed the performance clips with the transform tool, I think it might lose some of that feeling.

This plugin is instantiated in every single clip I have, and if I have multiple musicians "projected" at the same time onto the same background, I've had to export the background clip and re-import as many times as I have musicians performing, as the plugin doesn't support multiple motion trackers. Needless to say, this generates a lot of files and is quite time-intensive. Last I checked, this library was up to 170GB.

The plugin itself is also rather picky about how the clips are lined up and where you select things via your cursor and such. I've had to redo my work many times to get the performances to line up with the audio because if you don't select it just right, it may not line up the clips properly. It's a hassle, but I'm a noob and I haven't seen another way to do this.

The OTHER plugins that FCPX detects have been a thorn in my side for a long time. I don't do any audio processing in FCP, and yet afaik there is no way to disable AU plugins. As I'm mainly an audio guy, I have a ton of audio plugins for use in DAWs (I use protools, which doesn't use AU plugins, but also Ableton Live, which does, so the AU versions do need to be installed on my machine.) If anyone knows how to make FCPX ignore all those AU plugins, it would be really helpful!

Thanks again!

DaveM: Nope, not Luis.

"inbro" is a contraction of my name . . . Ian Brown.

DaveM wrote:

You should consider having a local SSD set up for storing render files. By storing media, temp files (including render files) on a network drive (inside the Library), it's not uncommon to run into performance issues. It's often preferable to store media, render files, etc. outside of the Library file. In fact, it may be better to have the Library file itself located on a fast SSD or your internal drive. Again, network storage, unless it's 10 Gb Ethernet or faster could be a limiting factor.

Thanks Dave - how would I go about doing this? Obv I could just house the whole library locally, but if I wanted to just keep the render files on local storage, what's the method for telling FCP how to do that?