Transcoding HDV interlaced to progressive for FCPX projects

Hi, I've finally decided I need to transcode all our HDV (1440x1080i, upper field, 29.97) to 1920x1080p. The decision is mostly due to a MAM we are beginning to use that is not currently playing well with HDV. And I'm working on several projects using some of this archival footage in FCPX.

I've been scouring the internet for more detail, but can find nothing specifically related to my situation with HDV. We would use Compressor to transcode to ProRes, but I'm trying to figure out the best settings Lanczos (2 or 3), Bicubic, etc. I tend to stay with "Good frame blending" as Best seems to be way to slow. The few tests I've done my mind is just turning to transcode mud and I can't always see much difference

Any links to good articles or videos or other tips? Thanks!!

In FCPX import an HDV test clip (ideally one having horizontal motion on the subject), create a manual 1080p timeline, add the test clip, in the Inspector "i" tab, at the bottom pick the "settings" view, then select the deinterlace check box. Export that and examine in Quicktime Player. Then examine it in VLC with Video>Deinterlace Mode>Off. That affirmatively disables playback deinterlacing which allows better examination of hard-deinterlaced content. QT10 is just a comparison - never rely on a single playback method for checking interlace stuff.

Note within the FCPX viewer, it only shows one set of interlaced fields, so it can artificially exaggerate the edge combing effects during FCPX playback. To see both fields in the viewer, select View>Show In Viewer>Both Fields.

If the above FCPX deinterlace test works, you should be able to do similar with Compressor. You can try the same clip in Compressor use similar settings then visually compare the result to FCPX. It should look the same - no edge combing or other artifacts. Once you verify that you can do the whole batch in Compressor.

This is excellent, thank you! Will run the test and see what I come up with.

In addition, I'm wondering if there are any thoughts on ideal settings in Compressor under the "Quality" section with the "Resize filter" (ie Bicubic vs Lanczos3 vs Linear...) as it relates to encoding the 1440x1080i, upper field HDV to 1920x1080p ProRes?

Those are for resizing, and I don't know the tradeoffs. I also don't know what deinterlacing algorithm FCPX uses -- there are many. But it seems to work well.

Hard-deinterlacing of bulk material is a serious step because you are locking that in. You definitely want multiple visual checks of various scene types. Youtube will deinterlace, provided the video file header isn't messed up. VLC has multiple deinterlacing algorithms. I'd be tempted to pick various scene types, deinterlace in FCPX and compare those exported test files to VLC's playback of the original interlaced files using various modes, also compare to Youtube's deinterlaced results after uploading the original files. FFMpeg is a command-line tool and can also deinterlace using several modes: ffmpeg.org/download.html

How many HDV tapes do you have? You could export to Pro Res and de-interlace or you could also try h.264 at 60P. You could even try Quick Time Animation. It does not hurt to experiment. Not sure of the final destination or how well FCPX and Compressor will handle the HDV files. After trans-coding does hair look like hair or rabbit fur? That being said I love editing HDV 1440 X 1080i on broadcast compliant hardware but I hate editing interlace video on the computer screen. The video link might be of some interest even though VHS is in the title and I use Premiere Pro you can use FCPX.

OK, I've done a few tests and I'll attached some screen grabs, you may not be able to tell the difference unless you enlarge the images. (Note, attachment did not work as the sizes were a little too large apparently)

When I manually created a 1080p timeline in FCPX and clicked the deinterlace box, it just unchecked itself automatically. I'm guessing it's because it's a 1080p timeline? I exported it to ProRes anyway. I also took the same clip and placed it in a manually created 1440x1080i timeline, there I can click the deinterlace and it stays. And then exported that.

When I play the original HDV file, the 1080p FCPX export and the 1440 FCPX export in VLC with the deinterlacing turned off, all show the same interlacing artifacts, the combing you mentioned. Same in QT.

Then I dropped the same original HDV file in Compressor and transcoded it to 1920x1080p ProRes, using the Quality settings Lanczos2 and Good (frame blending) the deinterlacing looks good. I guess as good as original HDV can. I did try the highest quality setting in Compressor in Quality "Best (anti-aliased)" and "Best (motion compensated)". It resulted in several artifacts, but did deinterlace.

Thanks arc. I'll check out the video. I have 50 to 75 hours of HDV. They are already digitized from years ago when we were on FCP 7. I have edited with them in FCP 7 and Premiere as is in some situations in a 1080p timeline. I've also tried transcoding them to 1080p in Adobe Media Encoder, but Compressor always gave me better results. These were only a handful here and there in an edit with mostly 1080p acquired footage. BUT now, mostly because I'm having issues with our new MAM, I need to transcode it all. So I wanted to step back and see what might be the ideal way to do it before I jumped in with both feet.

Glitchdog wrote: ...When I manually created a 1080p timeline in FCPX and clicked the deinterlace box, it just unchecked itself automatically. I'm guessing it's because it's a 1080p timeline?...

You have to select the interlaced clip itself in the progressive timeline, then check the deinterlace box. If you do that then export the file it should be deinterlaced. It would be interesting to compare it to the Compressor-deinterlaced version and see if there's a visible difference.

Well, maybe I'm going crazy. I just checked the project the timeline is in. It is definitely 1920X1080p timeline from what I see in the inspector. Then I select the HDV clip that is already in the 1080p timeline. When I tick the deinterlace box in the inspector panel under settings, it just unchecks itself. Again and again I select it and it just unchecks itself.

I'm signing off for today, but I'll dig around tomorrow to see. I'm sure it's my user error with something I did.

If you have Premiere Pro you should try a few tests with it. Premiere Pro might be a better option for your HDV work flow. The Intensity Shuttle is money well spent if you are editing HDV 1080i video using Premiere Pro. You can always sell it.

Would it be possible to post a piece of HDV original somewhere that it can be downloaded? A short clip that shows the interlacing would be great, I'm a bit puzzled that you're seeing interlacing everywhere, especially in the QuickTime player which normally suppresses it.

Glitchdog wrote: ...When I tick the deinterlace box in the inspector panel under settings, it just unchecks itself. Again and again I select it and it just unchecks itself....

What version of FCPX? I think I recall seeing that in older versions. You cannot deinterlace an interlaced NTSC timeline because by definition it must be interlaced and FCPX won't change the project characteristics. But normally you can add an interlaced clip to a progressive timeline and deinterlace that or other interlaced clips in that timeline. But there have been some behavioral changes in this area over time.

Like Tom said, if you could upload a brief HDV clip we could test it.

If you can upload a short video clip with a lot of motion that will make the interlacing super obvious we could all try a few tests. You could then pick the best method and replicate it.

Thanks everyone. I'm using FCPX 10.4.8 on OS 10.15.6 I've included the original HDV clip link below, along with a test encode to progressive in Compressor, if anyone is interested. Though the shot is a lock down, there is a truck and a motorcycle that zip by.

Because of the number of HDV clips, I made a very gross error yesterday. HDV clips are over 5000. I'd prefer to us something like Compressor. Would that not be more efficient? Just fyi, we have embraced FCPX once again and love the rich metadata which works well with our new MAM. We only keep a copy of Premiere for updating projects that were edited in Premiere.

S1133-95 Original HDV:
drive.google.com/file/d/1jJj2xrMWod5HZrA...sub/view?usp=sharing

S1133-95 transcoded to 1080p in Compressor 4.4.6 w/quality set to Lanczos2 and Good (frame blending):
drive.google.com/file/d/1CGsPJonTLZDEvZd...DW8/view?usp=sharing

When I put the clip in a 29.97p project in FCP it becomes deinterlaced. I can check the deinterlace box in settings (it doesn't uncheck), on the other hand it doesn't do anything either.

Tom Wolsky wrote: When I put the clip in a 29.97p project in FCP it becomes deinterlaced. I can check the deinterlace box in settings (it doesn't uncheck), on the other hand it doesn't do anything either.

Thanks Tom. When I dropped the HDV clip into the progressive timeline I definitely didn't see any interlaced artifacts, even when I switched "Show both fields" on. But alas, the check box still won't stay checked. Only staying checked when I put it in an interlaced timeline. I'm still relearning Final Cut, so likely my user error.

Yes, I confirm that. It must be a behavioral change since the last time I tried it. or else HDV has metadata it's handling differently.

Glitchdog, you can actually import 100 clips to FCPX, not even open a timeline, just select them all in the browser and export them. They will each be assigned a unique output name based on the name column in FCPX. You don't even need Compressor, but I'll test various settings and see if the quality or transcoding performance is any different.

See "FCP 10.4.4 New Features: Batch Sharing":

Glitchdog wrote: ...alas, the check box still won't stay checked. Only staying checked when I put it in an interlaced timeline. I'm still relearning Final Cut, so likely my user error.

It appears you don't need that and the output looks good, so it's an academic curiosity.

Verify you have the latest version of Apple Pro Video Formats installed. In Catalina that's in System Preferences>Software Update. If it's needed it should show up.

You can verify this in About This Mac>System Report>Software>Installations. Scroll down to Pro Video Formats, the current version is 2.1.1.

Love the Ripple Training guys. I hadn't seen that video yet. Excellent, really appreciate the heads up on that workflow in FCPX.

OK I tried FCPX, Compressor using Lanczos3 filter, Resolve Studio 16.2.5 using no deinterlacing and Resolve with deinterlacing. All attached are VLC 3.0.11.1 frame grabs with deinterlacing disabled.

This shows the risk of taking a quick look or using a playback tool where you don't absolutely know the deinterlace behavior.

In general FCPX and Compressor look very good. Resolve deinterlacing had some issues. See around truck tail light, and compare to the original and the interlaced Resolve output.

Besides checking objects in motion, it's important to check static details and diagonal objects like the bicycle handlebars. It's easy for aliasing to creep in, based on the algorithm.

You also want to check closely gamma issues. You don't want to transcode 1,000 files and then find something threw off gamma. VLC and Quicktime Player will often show slightly different gamma behavior, so it's hard to know if the change was in the file or just a player behavior.