Interlaced Material... Driving Me Crazy

Ben,

this is not a display issue, it's an issue of converting videos from interlaced to progressive where they are supposed to stay interlaced.

All players I know on Windows are capable of doing a decent de-interlacing, even Windows Media Player. I've never seen combing effects on my source files when I played them there, so I do not expect to see them now.

"...from interlaced to progressive where they are supposed to stay interlaced."

This is confusing, it's either interlaced or progressive, not both. But you can export through Compressor and specify to change the field order to progressive. It will do the best job.

Not all players do a great job, some do, some don't on both platforms.

It's not confusing, it's the heart of my problem:

I want to export interlaced, but I cannot find a way to tell Compressor to do so.
I want interlaced, I do not want progressive.

It's definitely not a display issue, that much is correct, but somewhere, (and I'm almost certain before reaching FCPX) there is a problem with your field order, and I've seen problems with fields on windows too so it's not a platform issue either.

All players I know on Windows are capable of doing a decent de-interlacing, even Windows Media Player. I've never seen combing effects on my source files when I played them there, so I do not expect to see them now.

If a field order gets reversed there is no way Windows Media Player will de-interlace it correctly.

On countless occasions I've had to interpret footage correctly for clients on a PC. And even Adobe After Effects doesn't always pick up the field order correct every time. That's why the option to manipulate fields exists in Premiere, After Effects, Motion and as pointed out a few posts back in FCPX. The only NLE I ever used that never failed to interpret the footage properly was Avid MC and so far FCPX if it turns out I'm right with your footage. I'll take another look tomorrow and let you know either way.

You want interlaced footage? OK. Is your original Timeline interlaced or progressive?

I'd "Send To Compressor", and pick ProRes or whatever codec you need. Inspector window, Encoder pane, Video "Settings", there's a place to specify interlaced or not.

If you're changing from progressive to interlace, you may have artifacts. That is just a bad way to go, period. Interlace to progressive is a much cleaner transcode.

But, if you're going from one to the other, in the Inspector window, Frame Controls pane, you can set up how to handle the transcode from one to the other manually there. Sometimes you can get progressive to look good interlaced.

U.S. stations are digital now, and can handle progressive. I'd get specs from the specific station you need to deliver to from the engineer, not from the sales guy.

Encoding is very technical, and not always cut and dry.

Dave,

right I have the same experience from DV-AVI days: Keeping the correct field order is essential. I am currently running a few export tests which I started after reading your hint about changing the field order.

FCP X has the field order wrong on all my files, I'm looking forward to further export tests.

Guess it'll be a few hours though, it's almost midnight here.

Ben,
do you have a screenshot of where I can tell Compressor to stay interlaced? I cannot seem to find it. :S

Inspector window. Either the Encoder tab, "Settings" button for video. And/or the Frame Controls tab.

I got a bit more info for you, but hopefully someone who's done more research on AVCHD support in FCPX will be able to confirm.

Your problem seems to be relating to AVCHD support and your missing folder structure. AVCHD uses Macroblock-Level Adaptive Frame/Field interlacing and FCPX supports AVCHD import, either re-wrapping the file in a QT Container or converting to ProRes, it looks like it must need the lost AVCHD files to do this so I wouldn't be surprised if it is standard that there is information in those files that relate to the MBAFF interlacing, but hopefully someone will know more about this.

I got a clean interlaced export (directly from FCPX) from your clip as described above, so at least the tools are available in FCPX to tell it what to do with the interlacing, I can't imagine from there you should have problems getting it through compressor.

So far, so good.

What puzzles me most is that I can only tell Compressor to do Interlaced when I export QuickTime with ProRes.

H.264 or even plain ole' MPEG-4 do NOT allow me to set them Interlaced.

That is both astounding and disappointing.

I will now do tests with ProRes interlaced export, then try to convert that someplace else into a format I can distribute.

Stay tuned, more feedback tomorrow.

Yes you can, Frame Controls tab of the Inspector. I just verified this.

And it is true, if you don't have the folder hierarchy of your original camera card in tact, you're screwed.

BenB wrote: Yes you can, Frame Controls tab of the Inspector. I just verified this.

Not here. Gotta catch some Zzzs now, I'll send screenshots tomorrow.

BenB wrote: And it is true, if you don't have the folder hierarchy of your original camera card in tact, you're screwed.

If that holds true, and I refuse to believe it does (technically, not personally), it would be a huge embarrassment for Apple. I know three editing applications on Windows that can handle MTS or M2TS natively without recoding and without those additional files...

Goodnite.

You need to hit the little cog to turn "Frame Controls" on before you can make any changes, but try this. Instead of setting the "Field Dominance" in FCPX to "Upper First" set it to "Un-modified", then send it to compressor and export with the default "Same as Source" setting for "Output Fields". This will keep your MBAFF interlacing intact and should get you the cleanest transcode as you aren't making any changes at any time.

If that holds true, and I refuse to believe it does

It doesn't, there's always a way.

As far as Compressor allows me to explicitly set a movie as Interlaced...

(sorry for German screenshots)

When I select "QuickTime Film" as a file format, I get the "Video Einstellungen" (Video Settings) button.


Behind that button, when I select Pro Res 422 HQ as codec, I can explicitly make it Interlaced.


Selecting H.264 or MPEG-4, I cannot make the movie Interlaced.




When I select a whole different file type for the export (which I desire to do), I don't even have the Video Settings button.


Maybe these settings will help me, when I set "Ausgabefelder".


Problem is, there are only De-Interlacing options, no setting for "keep it" or something like that.



I will now continue my export tests, but it doesn't feel very sophisticated, needle-haystack situation...

It's the "Ausgabefelder:" ("Output fields" in English) setting above "Deinterlace" that has the options your looking for: "Same as Source", "Progressive", "Top First", or "Bottom First". I don't know what these would be in German.

So we presume, if I set "Same As Source" or "Top First", the option below (for deinterlacing) is ignored?

I'm not sure, I've assumed that too. But hopefully someone with more experience with compressor can tell.

But you want "Same as Source" your rushes aren't really Upper Field dominant in the purest sense, along with deleting your AVCHD structure this is where your problems have been all along.