Price of Editing?

Hi Ben

Sorry but you have missed the point, the point is, the charity more than not can afford to pay for an edit session, that is why the CEO is rich, the charity no matter what the charity is, it is basically a rip off scheme to claim to be helping the charity, when most charities are for profit businesses disguised as a charity.

So doing free work for them is giving them a huge donation of my time, so what am I buying for the hours and hours spent editing? Maybe a tiny addition to my showreel, maybe not, I am not a script writer, I am not a camera operator, I AM NOT A FILMAKER, in bold to stress what I am not, sorry I am not those, I am a very very talented experienced dedicated tv news video editor, that was what I did for 12 years, and if I was not a victim of transphobic abuse, then I would still be doing that.

I hate the way charities abuse people, I have seen it happen so many times, to see how they abuse poorly paid low wage earning staff, and the way the upper most staff, earn well above national average, getting fat from overeating, and I cannot afford to buy decent food.

I lack confidence, I so wish you could feel what that feels like, it sucks!

I've worked very intimately with many charities, and the CEO's are rich due to other business, not the charity itself. They were rich before the charity came along. And their wealth is not the charity's wealth.

You either work hard to achieve your own success, or you blame others and fail. That's how life works.

If the "tiny addition" to your show reel isn't worth the time and effort, you simply don't do the work. No one is forcing you to do it.

Confidence is self made, not external.

BenB wrote: I've worked very intimately with many charities, and the CEO's are rich due to other business, not the charity itself. They were rich before the charity came along. And their wealth is not the charity's wealth.

You either work hard to achieve your own success, or you blame others and fail. That's how life works.

If the "tiny addition" to your show reel isn't worth the time and effort, you simply don't do the work. No one is forcing you to do it.

Confidence is self made, not external.

Well spoken... like Trump! :woohoo:

Hate Trump, but truth is truth. Crying never got anyone's career advanced. And I truly believe Justine is stronger than that.

I could not agree more with the confidence is self made, I was the most confident tape tv news video editor, ever since switching to non tape based systems, namely Final Cut, both classic and X, I have lost all confidence, in not doing it, it has been eroded.

Pilots suffer the same, that is why they have to keep flying to keep their licences, if you stop, you become less confident.

What is the price of editing? It is a multi-faceted answer, I cannot remember off hand who said it, filmaking is so cheap now, the cost of failing is now reasonable, where as a decade ago, to make a movie, the costs were so high, it prevented many from attempting this, now with the ability to film on iphones, and use $300 apps, such as FCPX, yet failure as a video editor, or making mistakes as a video editor is not possible? Seems there is a problem there.

I don't have the answers, and I have seen firsthand how many freelancers starting out have been taken advantage of, in giving away vasts amount of time and energy to charities, that really could afford to pay something, but they do not. I was at a local mall and the WWF, the world wide fund for nature, the one with the panda as a logo, how they use volunteers to stand and try and fund raise, so I checked on my phone the salaries of staff, the average salary for a mid level worker at the WWF is $110 000, where does that money come from???

So why do they use, sorry abuse volunteers and not pay them to stand in the mall and raise funds?

I am strong, I have morals and skills, give me a script and the raw data and I will create something to be proud of, that is not the point, what I have a problem with is in not editing, no matter how many ripple 5min video I watch, I am not confident, I cannot understand how difficult it is to see past a certain bias, see past the obvious, and see potential, in reaching out and offering to help, by offering to send a small project for me to edit, so that I can keep skills up to date, I spend 24 of 24 hours at home, I do not go out, bar for a an hour 2 or 3 times a week, when I am needed in the tv studio, that is my only source of income.

All I need is new projects to define my skills, doing the same boring Brendan Boykin exercise is akin to a weightlifter using 2lb dumb-bells to lift, a bit pointless.

Not everyone is the same, I am basically asking the FCP.co community to help me gain my lost confidence, is that really too much to ask?

Agree 110% with MsJustine on not doing free work for any organization.

Please. I beg everyone here, don’t be the sucker doing free work for organizations. I don’t care if the CEO of the charity was wealthy before joining the charity. That does not change the fact the since he is wealthy, he can pay you, out of his own pocket if need be, for the time you spend editing. If you need a demo reel, cut your teeth learning your craft in personal projects, or favors to individuals, friends or family. Maybe an individual needing a Kickstater video who will pay you if the project gets funded. A broke film student should have good footage for you to edit and you can both benefit.

Don’t enter any video contests!

While there is an ample supply of suckers who are willing to work for free, making a living in this business will be next to impossible. And the millions will keep flowing to the millionaires! Here is a good example of how ridiculous the contests have become:

www.adweek.com/adfreak/meet-hero-designe...him-work-free-159579

Multibillion-dollar companies launching contests to get 100’s of suckers to work for free has become commonplace. The greed we are seeing simply boggles the mind. Look at this contest that is currently ongoing, and weep. Disney, the world’s largest entertainment empire, is offering a whopping $250 as prize money for making films that promote their product. Think about this. Today 3/3/16, while that contest is going on, Disney’s Market Cap is 160B. Let that sink in for a minute. A company that is worth $160,000,000,000 is offering a $250 prize for work that in time and production costs can take anywhere from $250 to many thousands of dollars. Do any of you think Disney needs donations from broke wannabees that want to have a show reel? And yet some broke wanabees will flock to donate their time and skills to Disney. How is Disney not ashamed?

Here, let me put both numbers next to each other:

$160,000,000,000
$250

You all know how much money is $250. But what about $160B. Well that amount is difficult to comprehend. But I’ll let this guy illustrate how much is $1B.

dailyoftheday.com/so-how-much-is-a-billion-dollars/

That was just 1B. Now try to imagine what 160B look like. It is difficult to comprehend that amount. We are living in an age where greed knows no bounds. Please don’t be the sucker that perpetuates this abuse.

Disney Stars Wars Contest:
cdnvideo.dolimg.com/cdn_assets/3a519829d...40d46b8faaa409fc.pdf

I don’t care if you need good footage. Refuse to work for free for ANY organization. Do it on principle.

Its not so black and white. My first job in tv was a work placement as a lowly runner on a tv series. I worked damned hard for 3 months with no pay.

But I got my foot in the door, made contacts in the industry, and I got to hang out with a seriously talented crew and learned and experienced all sorts of stuff I would not have had the opportunity to do otherwise. I dont regret it at all, and I would recomend it to people starting out.

Justine; I haven't been on this board for a while, and I am sad to see you are still in the exact same position you were in a year or more back. Seriously, the jobs wont just materialize from out of nowhere. You might want to consider doing some gratis work to get the experience (and showreel) you require to move on. Your mindset has you stuck in massive rut, so what have you got to lose at this point?

Keep in mind in the "Film" or "Media" Industry who you know and who knows you is a vital ingredient.
There has been many Gigs I received through connection that where established on Low- No- budget projects.
That said I only chose the projects that felt right for.

Not sure if this fits in, but that I can happily say I get paid for what I know and not what I do.

Hi My name is Justine and I am a certified Final Cut Pro X video editor, may I pay you to edit something, you do not know me, but trust me I know what I am doing, and I do not have any work to show you because where I worked freelance as a video editor they own my work, as a result I am not entitled to make copies, but trust me I know what I am doing, even if I have not edited professionally on this version of Final Cut, you can trust me!

Ok, so how do you suggest I go about getting this mythical I pay the charity to edit for them? It is much easier to muck unicorn stables and pluck hen's teeth than find work!!

I am reaching out trying my best to explain my situation, how can you not see what I am trying to do, it is basically I need stuff to edit, to be criticized on, basically judge me on my work product, not on some out of date, faked, stolen, hijacked show-reel that you have no idea if I hijacked, stole, borrowed, paid a mate to edit my show-reel.

As I explained before, when Final Cut Studio was launched, I bought it, and I learned how to edit, when a job was advertised I applied, I had to sit a test of skills, and I was not as competent as the other candidate, and I did not get the job, wow, I thought that is the way to do it, ask the people applying to edit on site, judge based on what you want edited, not on some faked, stolen, etc show reel.

What what what is wrong with that suggestion??? That way I know what I cannot do, and what I can focus on, at this point I have zero, zip, zilch, nada, nein, confidence...The only way to get skilled is in the doing, the same as driving, you are a hazard on the road if you lack confidence, and this causes accidents, the more you drive, the more it becomes instinctive.

This was the case with dvcpro, I could edit without looking at the controller, after a year or so of frequent use, the keys became muscle memory, and now with FCPX, I would love to edit and develop, please can you help???

Thats pretty much the same story you were writing a year back or so, on that thread where you were questioning the validity of showreels.

The point is that your way of thinking is really not getting you anywhere with your editing career, you're still stuck in the same rut as last time, and still talking about the same problems as last time. Nothing has changed.

Can people help? Yes. We can offer some sound advice. Based on tried and tested experience. But while you can lead a horse to water you can't make it drink.

MsJustine wrote: Hi My name is Justine …

yep, all know … :huh:

What is the topic if THIS thread? Justine? I guess not so....
fcp.co offers a 'jobs' section, an OffTopic section and finally the service of P.M.s… 

With all respect, Justine, but can you please stop [strike]infiltrate occupy [/strike] threadjack any topic with your personal fate? You've reached my point of tolerance, really.

sorry for getting off-topic. really.

ditto...

Credit to soho editors @SohoEditors

Karsten Schlüter wrote: I've seen too many people claiming, they don't need money - but living from welfare, help of others, using 'free' support ...

I'm not claiming I don't need money. Just claiming that money in itself never is and never was a motivation for me. This makes me a very bad business man. I'm trying to improve that because... I need money! I have no welfare, no rich parents, no financial support from anywhere.

Every 'job' I do for free is a 'no job' for any who gets paid for .....

I never said I do work for free. I tend to do work for broke artist for lower than is sustainable for myself. If I would try to charge them more they would not be able to afford it and they would give the job to someone who did it for less or for free.
I also don't have the luxury to say no many times. I'm not sure my landlord would except a "sorry I can't pay the rent because I turned down some work cause they paid too little".

In this perspective, I do not understand a 100% why you ask for commercial prices… :huh:

It was explained. I'm starting to get requests from non-friends and businesses. To avoid quoting too little and thus undercutting the market I need to know where the prices are. And clearly what I'm considering A LOT is generally considered too little

Hi Simon,

Sorry it went over your head, you misunderstood the message of the cartoon, for that I apologise.

Like Dimitri I am a terrible business person, I have no idea what a commercial rate would be, having made a living working for 1 client that set my rate, and still work there for the rate they determine.

At this point I have zero clients in regards editing, all I do is live/recorded audio desk operations and the very occasional vision mixing, [in the US-technical directing?].

MsJustine wrote:

And THAT is why the artists I work with cannot afford to pay proper prices for videos. As an artist myself, I'm in it with them. We are in the same sinking ship and I cannot kick them out of the life boat even if it means a risk that it will sink as well.

Justine; it did not go over my head I can assure you.

But in all things you have to choose your battles, weigh the pros and cons, and work out is something worth it (and can worth be found outside the bounds of plain money; does experience have worth, do contacts have worth, does getting out of your usual routine and doing something different have worth).

If you're a creative person at the top of your game and in demand, then no, gratis work isn't going to achieve anything.

If you're an enthusiastic up and coming go-getter, a positive people-person who can ace every interview with your personality, then no, gratis work probably won't be worth it.

If you're unemployed, pedantic, argumentative, introverted, stuck in a rut; then I'd say hey, what the hell, why not try something completely different, do some gratis work, and in return for your investment of time you may get some newfound confidence, experience, contacts, a foot in the door, a jolt to the system, a boost, whatever.

Hi Simon

Thank you for the reply, I have met quite a few video editors, and they are not people friendly, they are bats, they hate light, they are basically suffering from various disorders, such as bipolar, autistic, borderline personality disorder, they choose editing as it gives them a creative voice, but they are anti social on OCD!!

I am that, I am totally anti-social, I hate the sun, I love the dark, I am moody, and not a people person, I am that person, you hand work to, walk away and come back hours later, job done, I hate being around and mixing with people, I have numerous disorders, does that make me incompetent???

It is because people do not understand my disorders, or basically I fuck up interviews, as I am totally unable to function that way, my brain was made that way, and you are saying I must be something I am not, that is like asking a Sony camera to be a television, it cannot..

Shit this is damn hard, it is not impossible to understand, I am sure you have come across people like me, that are autistic, hate crowds, and 2 people make a crowd, I fear they are reading my mind, you have met them, you have worked with them, they make great members of the team, as they are not distracted by day to day rubbish, they focus on the task!!

It is not about being a people pleaser, camera-people, directors, they need to kiss arse, I just edit!!!