Dvd menu authoring

Hi all,

I've been trying out the FCPX trial and noticed that there is no way to create a dvd menu or chapter field. I've seen posts on other forums recommending iDVD but it seems counterproductive, even though it may work, and should be in FCPX already (my opinion).

What options are available for doing something like this, mainly a intro, then the dvd menu with scene selection/chapters/outtakes etc.

I was hoping that if I bought FCPX along with Motion 5 I could make my own intros/menu's all under one roof of FCPX. If this isn't the case what are my alternatives besides iDVD? iDVD's canned examples don't seem to be able to be easily edited.

Thanks!

You need iDVD or Toast or Adobe Encore for that type of DVD creation.

Bummer, thanks for the quick reply. I'm done giving Adobe any more of my money. Not a cloud/subscription person so Encore is out even though that would probably be the best option. iDVD seems dated ( found a copy on my MP ) Toast, I have to look at that a bit more closely. Such a shame Adobe has gotten so greedy now with the subscriptions. Maybe Apple will come out with another add on eventually for this.

DVD Studio Pro runs under Mavericks. If you can locate a copy from FCS2 you can install the universal binary with Pacifist. I believe the version with FCS3 will install directly.

I am one very disappointed new user. Having upgraded from a PC running Premiere and latterly Sony Vegas and Architect, all of which has cost a great deal of money(!), I now find that I am unable to create proper chapter menus! Because I read somewhere in a Help page that I needed Compressor, I have also invested in that only to find that it does nothing useful for me as I can share perfectly well from FCPX! I spent a great deal of time learning my way into FCP and have almost finished a 2-hour programme which I cannot now finish satisfactorily.

All the sales blurb bangs on about how wonderful this software is but does not make clear what it does not do.

Or, have I missed something somewhere along the line? I guess that this gripe may not be in the right place or directed to the right people but I am finding navigating this forum a bit difficult - sorry!

iMac 2014, Yosemite 10.10.1, FCP 10.1.4.

jagaloon wrote: … iDVD's canned examples don't seem to be able to be easily edited.

No idea, what gives you that impression - iDVD was the most versatile and convenient disk-maker. Ever.
(aside DVDSP, but you had to be an engineer to dig out all its hidden gems…)
iDVD allowed some marvel, by simply drag 'n drop.


5y ago, I started a website , showing some simple/hobbyists level tricks able with iDVD: customized menus, animated menus, animated buttons, easter-eggs, auto-start elements etc etc etc... And for sure, individual chapter-menus.

'Outdated' is the DVD format itself ... a 1/6th of res of any actual fullHD recordings.
I posted at ASC a lil' essay about 'quality' …:
discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-8021

… stay under 60min, and iDVD gives you the best quality DVD-standards allow.....

Times change and technology moves on but there is still a business need to create DVDs at the moment. FCPX Chapter markers work well and find their way all the way through to DVDSP if you use Compressor to make the MP2 files. It probably works if you feed a ProRes file to DVDSP directly but I prefer to set the bit rate etc. myself for optimal quality. I can confirm that DVDSP runs on Mavericks and I've read that it works with Yosemite but I haven't managed to install it on a machine running that OS yet. I will try the Pacifist approach. Toast is not a serious choice for me for authoring.

Both Apple and Adobe have walked away from optical media authoring - you can download and run Encore CS6 with CC but there is no CC version. FCPX does a decent job of auto authoring DVD and Blu-Ray discs using the chapter markers to create chapter menus but you don't have much control of how they look or behave. It won't get any better I'm afraid, quite the reverse, but the future is file-based and most of my clients have moved on already.

Ian.

I find that iDVD is highly customizable, has excellent quality considering that it's SD (once you find the proper "Professional Quality" setting), and works flawlessly under Yosemite. I feed it full quality ProRes exports from FCPX and it does an excellent job of the software conversion.

I've only ever used DVD Studio Pro and can't recommend it enough. If only it could author Blu-rays I'd be overjoyed beyond belief. But noooooo. Thanks Apple! Now go screw yourselves!

Hi Patrick,

You haven't missed anything along the line. You simply are confusing an editing application with a DVD authoring program.

Most editing applications provide an easy way to create a simple DVD or a BluRay disc with a straight menu and some chapters. This is also what you can do right inside FCP X.

But if you need fully customizable menus and advanced navigation you will need a dedicated DVD authoring application. That's how it always has been, so no surprises here.

To create DVDs with customizable menus you have different solutions on a Mac, DVDSP and Encore being the most advanced ones. iDVD is also an excellent option, albeit with fewer possibilities. But if you still have your old PC with Architect nothing prevents you from using these to create your DVDs from the FCP X master.

- Ronny

Gentlemen, HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Thank you all for the helpful replies.

As the old (32-bit) PC is still up and running (XP) I will try the Architect route first but, with other commitments, it mat be a while before I get to it... :whistle:

Patrick Marks, Gloucester, UK

Good idea, Architect is a great DVD authoring program. And a Happy New Year to you!

- Ronny

ronny courtens wrote: … iDVD is also an excellent option, albeit with fewer possibilities. …

<note2myself>
add to List of New Years Resolutions, item#241:
"Writing an illustrated How-To, what's possible with iDVD, and publishing on fcp.co"



No doubt, the pro tool DVDSP offered much, much more features (selectable audio-tracks, animations btw. pages, non-ff-pages, 'programable menu structures' and so on…)

But, I dare to say, for the 'average' needs, customizing&creating menu design/'templates', chapters selection, DVD-Rom section (for distributing HDef photos), etc etc iDVD is still unmatched in its convenience. ... To create a highly personalized wedding-DVD, iDVD offers all you need.-

(But first, I have to fire-up my ol',white MacBook, last Mac in my household with iDVD and a working DVD-drive ... LOL)

What is this "DVD" you speak of?

BenB wrote: What is this "DVD" you speak of?

I wasn't going to say this because it's not helpful to the OP but my own group debated the DVD thing a long time. While the business need for DVDs varies with each case, a fresh re-examination of all the pros and cons might be revealing. We *thought* we had a business need but as we re-examined our clients, they were increasingly moving to mobile devices, ultrabooks, Roku, AppleTV, etc -- none of which have optical drives.

We were spending a lot of effort shooting in 1080p with DSLRs (4k in some cases), elaborate post processing to optimize the image, only throw away 5/6ths of the pixels when transcoding to DVD. Blu-Ray market penetration isn't good, so that wasn't the answer, either.

People do often have a home DVD player hooked to their TV, but even this is diminishing.

In our case a frank self-examination revealed we were clinging to the DVD format more for our own needs than the customer's. E.g, we were familiar with the production process. The DVD jewel case and menu system provided a convenient place to display graphics and artwork. We didn't want to examine web equivalents to this. There was a perceived greater value in distributing a physical product. The DVD somewhat inhibited unauthorized duplication and distribution.

When Apple discontinued DVDSP years ago and Adobe shipped the final version of Encore in 2012, we were initially frustrated like many other content producers. However we've more recently moved toward web-based distribution and so far not a single customer has asked for a DVD.

Ultimately there will be no alternative than to embrace streaming or file-based media. That can be streaming, or downloaded, or distributed on a decorative USB thumb drive packaged with a gift card, or a decorative card with QR code -- there are many options. For those who haven't begun this transition, my suggestion is start planning the move now.

Thank you joema for the excellent description of the process many producers I've contacted have all been through.

If your clients are asking for DVD they are likely as not doing it out of habit as well. Spending a little time educating them to other delivery options allows both you and them to move beyond it.

BenB wrote: What is this "DVD" you speak of?

LOL; excellent! :lol:

and Thanks to joema for sharing your insights.

Being the hobbyist on this table:
I'm noticing with my Soccer Moms&Dads, they ask for DVDs, but don't watch them! Squirrel Habit, "collect, collect!" One asked for a disk, but doesn't even own a functional player (according to her son)!!! Looking around in the big electronic markets here, it is hard to get a DVDplayer, one shop lately sold "as much DVDs you can fit into one of our plastic bags for just 5€!" ....

… it looks like, all those extra-features, 'we want' and appreciated with this media, isn't used that much. (e.g. has anybody ever used 'selectable cam angles' ??!)

Or, at least, isn't needed/expected with home-brewn stuff - who adds commentary tracks to his latest Xmas-family-recording? …

The moment, it gets just close to 'business', accessibility is the magic word - instantly, mobile, multi-devices. And even rooted Android-phones don't swallow disks............ :woohoo:

.... and BluRay is in my lil' habitat really exotic! Only the kiddies with Playstations claim with a bored voice "me have!" - but they watch 'movies' on their mobiles/pads only..... or 'beam' from there onto the family's big screen.

… a few tech-afficionados start asking me, to deliver my soccer-reports in 1080, 'cause their living room is now dominated by some monster-screen, blazing fast connected to the internet - … who needs disks, indeed?

YouTube should work on its UserInterface - playlists, favorites, 'private', replay from pause, etc etc etc would increase the viewer experience. Imagine, how an -tube (no, not -TV, I mean a 'cross platform streaming platform') would like .............. :huh:

Guys, This topic has opened up an interesting discussion. As a 'hobbyist' user, I make long-ish (up to 2 hours) videos of specific group holidays - usually European botanical trips studying orchids an alpine plants. That is my wife's interest
and I add in the geographic, historic and travel side. My intended audience is the other participants, age 60+, who all get a (free) copy and are mostly 'non tech savvy' but can just manage a DVD player!

I like to divide the video into days and chapter accordingly. If the video is more than, say, 50 minutes I split it over two discs to avoid downgrade. I do add music and some voiceovers and tweak the sound track to avoid spurious noises detracting from the subject of interest.

Other subjects have been 'Seagoing adventures on an English Narrowboat', 'Across India By Rail' (7 discs), Flora of Bulgaria, -Greece, -Cyprus, -Switzerland -Andalucia(Spain) -Vercors(France) and Rail Tour of New Zealand.

Again I say Thank You all for your insight help and advice - it is appreciated.

Patrick.

Many of the people I supply material to still request a DVD, I still use FCP7 (along with FCPX) and DVD Studio Pro, I also have Encore available on my Mac. One of the options for those without a DVD author program I've not seen mentioned here is DVDStyler - a free, open source Mac/Windows/Linux solution. I have it working with Mavericks, not tried it on Yosemite though, It is a basic program but does allow custom menu's etc, it's also still being developed with the latest update in Sept 2014, I'd stress it's no DVDSP or Encore but should enable more functionality than that offered in FCPX.

(Patrick, I'm not far from you if you want to chat or have a coffee sometime).

3pause1 wrote: ...long-ish (up to 2 hours) videos of specific group holidays - usually European botanical trips studying orchids an alpine plants....My intended audience is the other participants, age 60+, who all get a (free) copy and are mostly 'non tech savvy' but can just manage a DVD player!...

Your situation illustrates one reason why DVDs live on. It's exacerbated by the splintered distribution channels and techniques for the alternatives.

E.g, say a significant fraction of your viewers have AppleTV, Roku, or the means to obtain those. With AppleTV there's no easy way to navigate to your web-based video except by using an Apple device and AirPlay. With Roku you can supposedly create a private channel, although I haven't tried that. If the customer wants to sit down and use a remote control (similar to a DVD player), web-based distribution must be equally easy and consistent.

Of course those willing to play it on a PC, laptop or mobile device can be emailed a URL. But for TV-style "living room" playback, each environment is different. Some allow inputting a URL, some don't. Some allow adding a private user channel, some don't. AppleTV has AirPlay from mobile devices, some newer TVs may support DLNA wireless playback from Android devices. The problem is unlike DVDs that have a single, consistent hookup and usage mode, procedures for TV streaming video vary widely.

If the primary audience will be using a laptop or mobile device, it's very easy and you don't need a custom web page. Just use something like Vimeo Pro that provides a more refined, non-commercial viewing experience. It can even provide basic presentation and layout design without any programming. You can email them a URL or give them a glossy gift card with a scannable QR code. For "TV living room" playback it's more complex, but people are gradually figuring out how to do this.

However there's the issue of monetization. Vimeo On Demand ( vimeo.com/creatorservices/ondemand ) has this, but you'd have to investigate all possible client playback environments: AppleTV, Roku, Chromecast, mobile devices, etc, and see if it is easily accessible from all. If it's not easy, the customers would rather keep using DVDs.

Despite the work required to figure this out and motivate your viewers to learn new ways, there are many benefits. The video quality of your HD product is much higher. You eliminate or reduce distribution and duplication costs. You retain the ability to update the product after it ships, whereas with DVD you are committed before a big manufacturing run. You will reach many more viewers because playing a video URL is convenient, and increasingly people don't have DVD playback capability or they'd rather play it on a mobile device anyway.