FCPX.1 Keyframes still messed up

Hi Everyone,
I am still seeing that the keyframes in FCP are not working right.

1. Linear and Smooth interpretations not right
2. You can paste and create video keyframes between a frame. Creating them between frames seems intermittent but you can paste a keyframe always between a frame. This is OK for audio, but not video.
3. Linear and smooth interpolations settings will not copy from and then paste to, the same setting.

Here is a simple test..(New project/library/event in 422)
Add a 10 second or so clip to timeline.

1. make the 1st keyframe about 1 second or so into the video.(do you have nay trouble creating this 1st keyframe?.. for me sometimes i have trouble getting the keyframe to get created.. only the 1st keyframe)

2. make the 2nd keyframe about 2 seconds into the video and move the X position so the video is about 1/2 off the screen. Check to see if both keyframes has linear and not smooth settings.

3. go to around 7 seconds or so down the clip. select the 2nd keyframe and copy it, now paste it at around the 7 second area whereever your playhead is. (did it paste linear or smooth?. And did it paste on or inbetween a frame?... both of these i find to be intermittent)

4. go to around 8 seconds or so down the timeline, copy the first keyframe, and paste it here at the 8 second area. check the same things as in step 3 (did it paste linear or smooth?. And did it paste on or inbetween a frame?)

The end result is usually the playback of the video is not linear in the movements. Same S curve as before.

The workaround that i found seems to be similar as the workaround in the previous version.
1st set every keyframe to linear if they are not (you need to check them all, including ones you copied/pasted).
2nd move the keyframes on a frame, not between frames if any are there.
3rd (in the above example), select the 3rd keyframe and change it from linear to smooth (a render will start), then change it back to linear again (it should now render again... it shouldn't have to but it will. If it does render again this is actually correct because it has reset itself to the correct keyframe interpolation.)

anyone else seeing similar?

Kurt

What are you doing exactly to create the keyframes?

What are you actually do at step 3 to copy and paste the second keyframe?

to create the keyframe, I scrub to the area on the timeline i want it to go, then press the keyframe button (diamond looking thing) either in the inspector or the viewer.. dont seem to matter.


move the playhead to the area you are going to create the new (3rd) keyframe, click on the second keyframe so its highlighted, go to edit>keyframes>copy, then edit>keyframes>paste. The new 3rd keyframe should now go where your playhead is

thanks
kurt

I wanted to add to this..
in the workaround, final step, i am changing the Left keyframe setting back and forth from linear to smooth to linear again (the left diamond, not the arrow, when working in the viewer)

Also, show video animation is on throughout..

With the playhead at the third keyframe position move the image so you can see both keyframes. Make them both linear. Move the image back into position. The last keyframes were both linear.

not sure what you mean..
do you mean move the playhead so i can see both keyframes?.. if i move the image then the keyframes themselves would change.

yes, both settings within the keyframe should be linear, infact all keyframes should be.
if its set to smooth, you get that horrid S curve thing going in.. however with this test, i am just moving the X position, so the S curve is more speed related rather than and actual S curve.
It is this speed that is wrong... the image movement 'speeds up' towards the end of the keyframe, this is compounded if the keyfrasme is not on the start of a frame. if the keyframe gets pasted or created in the middle of a frame, the image will jump during that frame in playback.
you can see this clearer when you zoom in to the timeline to see the placement of the keyframe, then go frame by frame to see the jump (i am using a shuttle pro 2 so i can scroll through the frames)

when you copy them paste a keyframe, if the keyframe you copied was all linear, then the pasted keyframe should be the same... this is not always the case.

You move the image to set both keyframes to linear then you move it back. Then all the keyframes are linear and there is no movement while the image is supposed to be static.

yes, the image will stay static, however the issue is the speed up between the last 2 keyframes.

Also i just noticed, do the same test but instead move the scale of the clip instead of X position.
Now you can not select smooth (well you can but it wont change in the UI, it stays linear)... but if you change it back again, back and forth like in the previous workaround steps, it will start to render again, and fix itself... So this same bug as before is here in this new version, it was never addressed. How all these new keyframe changes were made, but the same bug exists.. some what ridiculous. had to get it released before the new year / quarter i guess. this is a simple and obvious bug, ticks me off that its still here.

kurt

Scale has always interpolated differently. It has to. There is no way around this without exponential scaling. I don't think any NLE can do that. Motion graphics apps can.

I don't see any speed up between the last two position keyframes. They're all linear. What happens if you don't copy and paste the keyframes, simply apply the sane keyframe in the same position?

The point i am making on scale is that it dont change in the UI when you select smooth.
But once you select it anyway, it begins to render, so the change was actually applied.
you can see the difference in scale when selecting linear or smooth in the speed of the change between keyframes.

Also i just noticed as well that in the viewer, when moving between keyframes, you can not get to the last keyframe when clicking the arrows.. you need to click the arrow in the inspector to get to the last keyframe

And another, when you move between the keyframes, the keyframes themselves dont highlight in the timeline, not sure if this is a bug or not, but it makes it confusing as to what keyframe you are actually working on, you need to click it in the timeline to highlight it.

kurt

The point I'm making is that animation in scaling can only be linear if it's exponential because scaling size is not a linear function it's logarithmic. I don't think NLE's have that level of motion complexity.

Not seeing the arrow not working.

Moving to a keyframe should not highlight it.

if i type in the numbers (position change on X using the inspector window) instead of copy/paste, in this one test it visually looks OK
But when the keyframes are created (i guess by default), the left side (where the diamond is) is linear, on the right side where the arrow is, is set to smooth. this is the setting on all the keyframes.. yet it appears to be moving at a constant rate (or linear).. so im not sure whats going on there.
The 4th, last keyframe i made, was made inbetween a frame, so scrolling over this area you can see the jump in the video. sometimes, where ever the playhead ends up.. some times when you create the keyframe you can see the playhead move to the nearest frame before adding the keyframe, this is correct.... other times it wont move and a keyframe will get added between a frame. this jump in position is visually noticeable in playback especially if the 2 keyframes on the timeline are closer together

Because you can scrub in sub frame increments, an 80th of a frame, when doing motion animation you must use playback or arrow keys to ensure you are placing keyframes on whole frame intervals.

no, you should not have to check to see if you are in the middle of a frame or not before adding or pasting a video keyframe. this is a bug. when you want to place a keyframe somewhere specific, you cant use arrow keys if you haven't created the keyframe yet. using playback, then trying to stop playback where you want the keyframe to go, is somewhat crazy.. you could never sop it where you want it to go (if im understanding you right) Also sometimes and sometimes not, the playhead will jump to the start of the frame when you add the keyframe. if it was not a bug the jumping (or not jumping) of the playhead would be consistent.

I just rechecked the issue not being able to get to the last keyframe, now it is working, so there is some sequence of steps to get it to not work that i must have done.. ill look at it later.

Using the arrow keys on keyboard to ensure that you're on whole frames. The alternative would be to not allow keyframing on subframe values for audio. You have to make sure you're on whole frames when motion keyframing.

I forgot to mention, why should the keyframes not highlight when you move to them?
wouldn't this be better so you know what keyframe you are working on?
i had to recheck this several times to be sure i was moving the correct keyframe.. when arrow moving to a different keyframe the playhead moves to it, but the previous keyframe, not the one where the play head is, is still highlighted... an i working on the right keyframe or not? IMO it should highlight if that is the one that changes when you are changing a setting.

Placing a keyframe while using the video tools (Scale and X&Y) should place the keyframe at the start of a frame. The software needs to know you are working in video while using the video tools and not audio. Also when you are not in subframe view (zoomed in) the placement of the keyframes, just like the playhead, should go to the start of a frame. If the playhead can do this, the keyframe placement, in video, should do it as well. again this is intermittent, if you zoom in to see, sometimes the playhead will jump to the start of the frame (if its in the middle) when you click the add a keyframe button... and sometimes not. Intermittent behavior is a bug.

The highlight should be Indepedent of the playhead position. Keyframes always behave like that do you can nudge or copy a different keyframe otherwise you could only alter the keyframe you were sitting on. That's very limiting.

I would say you're not using the application correctly that's why the behavior is unpredictable.