TOPIC:

i think it would be a serious marketing gaff if Apple charged early adopters anything for a 10.1 update. we have all acted as cheerleaders and beta testers for the product. I would be happy to pay something but I'm guessing there are an awful lot more people that won't be - and those people talk. a lot.

Apple are no where near over the damage they caused themselves with the introduction of FCPX so need to handle their FCP PR very delicately from now on.

I love FCPX but most other editors know wouldn't ever consider using it on a TV Show or Film. They just don't trust it because of the amount of trash talk about its amateur feature set. And charging the people that have supported you would be a great way to generate ALOT more bad press and internet gossip about your already problematic software.

Anyway just wanted to see how you lot felt.

Definitely I would... software is brilliant, and would likely be more so with a paid update.

Of course I wouldn't mind, the software paid for itself on the the first edit.

I'm one of only two people that use FCP X professionally in town, I would certainly pay for an update. I just blew a clients mind last night, editing while the timeline plays.

Yes I would pay for it. No I wouldn't be too happy about it.

I fell in love with FCP X because everything I was doing with it was short form. Now I'm on to long form stuff I'm really finding some serious limitations. There is still a lot to do to make this software truly great.

Seanus, interested in what problems longform is presenting. I too have had much joy editing shorts and promos on X but have been wanting to unleash it on a big and complex project

Any insights or observations would be greatly appreciated

If you purchased Final Cut Studio, PPro, MC, and four months later a paid upgrade came along ($400+), you'd not have a choice but pay for it, and think it just business as usual. Why not for FCP X?

I've been cruising PPro and MC forums to see what issues they're posting about. Not much different from FCP X forums. Tools don't work right, PITA work arounds to achieve some workflows, etc.

As for professional, I offer this to the debate, and won't discuss it further.
www.apple.com/finalcutpro/in-action/detective-dee/

@ Wildgiles

"I'm one of only two people that use FCP X professionally in town, I would certainly pay for an update. I just blew a clients mind last night, editing while the timeline plays."

You are playing, setting in/out points and deleting as you play along? Right?

Just out of curiosity?

Yes I would pay for it.

Am up to my eyeballs in FCP Xness....

If FCPX 10.1 came along and did

• Original Time Code in a Project timeline, and a decent TimeCode Reader
• Proper Media Management, clips with 'Handles'
• Round Tripping with Motion
• Better metadata support (including Closed Caption/Subtitling)

Dude, I'd so pay double for that. I'll cash in my subscription to CSwhatever.

FCPX is still iMovie Pro, and is so unashamedly. I love it for what it is. It just needs to jump over a few more fences to deserve the moniker 'Final Cut Pro', and deserve a top-dollar tag.

I'm curious what "serious limitations" you are finding. I've always found short form to be much more demanding on any editing software (i.e.: usually involves more titling, fx etc like spots or promos). Thanks

can't speak for seamus but I would guess - terrible media management (ie no true handle based consolidation) for lots of data and a lack of corroborative editing.

i have only used it on short form and its great - but no way would I want to handle a 10x 60 min TV show on it.

That's what Apple need to address asap imo.

I don't know when was the last time Apple charged for an upgrade for their own software. Most of their software is still in the same version for years and AFAIK they only charge for Mac OS X subversion upgrades. Maybe they will use the same for FCPx when it hits the v11.

iLife's iPhoto v9 released in October 20, 2010, now on v9.4.2 ¿Did they charged any upgrades so far?
iWorks' Pages v4 released in January 6, 2009, now in v4.3 ¿Did they charged any upgrades so far?
Logic Pro Studio 9 released in December 9, 2011 on the MAS*, now on v9.1.8 ¿Did they charged any upgrades so far?
Aperture 3.1.1, released in January 6, 2011 on the MAS, now is v3.4.3 ¿Did they charged any upgrades so far?

The question is not sarcastic, I don't own any of this apps so I don't know if they charged the upgrades.

PS: All the information was taken from Wikipedia.

* Logic Pro 9 was released before that date in July 23 2009, but I suppose that if you jump to the Mac App Store version, you had to buy it again there.

OK, you guys know it IS being used for a TV series, and for a feature 3D film, right? I know four editors who are doing, or have done feature length films here in New Orleans on FCP X, and love it.

Jimmyfinn wrote:

Seanus, interested in what problems longform is presenting. I too have had much joy editing shorts and promos on X but have been wanting to unleash it on a big and complex project

Any insights or observations would be greatly appreciated

Don't get me wrong. I still love editing with FCP X more than anything I've ever used before, but there can be frustrating moments.

The timeline is very clunky. Zooming in and out is hit and miss. You can't create individual presets for how the data is presented. You can't even turn off waveforms without losing major functionality.

Trimming is still a looooong way behind the rest.

Since the introduction of the Event Viewer I often find that FCP with get stuck and won't show me my project in the viewer no matter what I do. I have to close and reopen.

Working with audio is still clunky, too much mousing around for my likes.

Events and keywords are ok but annoying that a keyword collection of one long clip is virtually useless in list view. You have to twirl down every single clip to see what's in there.

You can't save particular views in keyword collections. If I have a collection of audio files I will want to see different data to a collection of interviews.

There is still a LOT to do. But I will happily pay for a newer version to keep things moving forward.

I'd certainly pay for an upgrade since the full price of FCPX is less that the upgrade price of others. Seanus - I'm intrigued by your comment on trimming tools...

I don't find some elements of filtering to be optimal. Always closing the disclosure arrows when you go away from a keyword collection is irritating but I've got used to using cmd-A then right arrow to open them all again. Still, these things would not stop me working on long form projects so what are the problems?

Ian.

What specifically is lacking with trimming?

What specifically is lacking with trimming?

Avid has always had the edge with its keyboard operated dynamic trimming capabilities, it's so fast and fluent, slips, slides the lot. The magnetic timeline is fantastic and I think it holds massive potential for bettering what Avid has, especially now that the tilde key has been established.

I often wonder if we will get it or if the full touch screen trimming operation will come first. I'd like to see both options for FCPX.

I forgot to add. The advanced trim editor, is that what they called it, I forgot?. I was very curious about where this would go but the reality is I forgot it was there, does anyone use it and have they found any advantages/disadvantages? or any work having been done on it since creation?

It's called the Precision Editor, but it's hardly anything like that.

Trimming has many features missing while others are just super clunky.

1 Example. In Avid if you've done a perfect edit for audio but want to adjust the video cut, its one lasso and dynamic trim.
In FCP X is a myriad of clicking before you can get anywhere near this workflow. Plus the feedback you get in the Precision editor is far from ideal. Apple might think it's cool to see a film strip of frames, but for me it's irrelevant. I want to see the CUT Point and I want it to be big and bold.

No asymmetric trimming, if I want to trim a shot but have the underlying audio tracks all stay in place or move in the opposite direction it's very difficult.

I could go on but suffice it to say that while FCP X is faster in just about everything else, trimming is it's Achilles heal.
It's what an Avid editor will always point out as being far superior and they're right.

I guess we disagree there, because I find Avid trimming super clunky and too many clicks. Different people edit different types of projects in different ways. One edit tool will never satisfy everyone at the same time. But FCP X will be maturing over time as we know. And quickly. I assume you've done the whole feedback page about what you'd like to see. That's important.

I would like to see real dynamic trimming in FCP X though, and very, very soon.