FCPX and Macosx Ventura Crashing constantly

In my first test I had 806 clips, video, audio, stills, in an event and dragged them into a project without crashing.

In a 462 clip event I tried to rearrange columns in the browser and it immediately crashed.

There are certain scenarios where you add a clip to a project, it crashes, then you can't restart it (and have it stay up). It will open the project, crash again, etc. If you launch it with OPT key and then select and open the library, it crashes. Sometimes it will stay up a while, but the moment you even click on the project, it crashes. I had a case today where I had to open the library bundle and manually delete the project just to keep it up long enough to export a library XML.

I ran it under XCode, and the FCP private UI framework LunaKit is logging anomalies related to violated layout constraints. In AppKit (the GUI framework for macOS, which LunaKit calls), the programmer manages the constraint system. The constraint system allows you to specify how the user interface should adapt when the size of a window changes, e.g., things like aspect ratio. The constraints are specified by the programmer and are automatically applied by the system at runtime to ensure that the UI elements maintain the desired layout and behavior.

My guess is something in AppKit, or related runtime code changed in Ventura 13.2, which caused existing API calls made by the FCP LunaKit UI framework to malfunction. This caused a cascading failure which eventually crashed FCP. The relationship to a 500 clip threshold might be the UI system adapting to the screen objects in the event (whether displayed or hidden), which then triggers the failure sequence.

So my current guess is it's not related to FCP's ability to handle the data. Rather the number of clips is triggering a failure in the UI system.

I haven't seen the crash on relaunch, but I almost always reset the prefs after a crash.

Once it starts crashing, it just seems to keep doing it, even after reboots and prefs and in libraries with small event numbers.

Do you mean it does that if no project is present? So far I've only noticed the "persistent crashing" syndrome if I create a project and crash it by adding clips from an event with over 500 clips. In some cases it can crash from simple actions or just from relaunching FCP, apparently whenever it touches the project. 

In that state it's difficult to delete the project before it crashes. If this situation developed on a large production library that would be bad.

I am writing a shell script to reproduce it easily before I contact Apple. Just testing it now; will be done shortly.

There seems to be some variation from one machine to another but on my M1 Ultra machine the crash threshold is around 300 clips in an event. It does not crash at 250, but at 300 and above. If I just import 300 clips to an event, create a test project and add 1 or 2 clips to the timeline, it will crash. I've tested this on two different Apple Silicon machines running Ventura 13.2, one brand new, and having no complex software or drivers installed.

There likely was a project open but I wasn't doing anything there, strictly in the browser. It has now seems to have "infected" another library, which I'd been using with 13.2 prior to its release, that had been working without problem. It has 40 events, most of them with a small number of clips, the largest with 351 stills. Now pretty much the only library that functions is the base Untitled library. 

Has anyone seen this on Intel or is it only Apple Silicon? I mean the specific crash where the crash log shows numerous -[NSView _informContainerThatSubviewsNeedUpdateConstraints] right before the crash point.

Yes. I tried it with copies the same libraries on a 2019 MBP, running 13.2. I don't have any 13.1 systems unfortunately. 

I also tested the libraries with the same functions that instantly crash 13.2 in Monterey, and the application was completely smooth.

Today I discussed it with Pro Apps support; Apple FCP engineering is aware of the problem and are working on it. I filed bug FB11975994 with a canned replication scenario. 

IMO the question is whether it's a MacOS bug or FCP bug. Ideally if an OS-level change causes apps to crash, a fix at the OS level is prioritized. However sometimes app developers must make stopgap fixes in the interim.

What I’ve heard it’s not only affecting FCP, but also other apps. From that I take it’s an OS bug. But I haven’t heard any news on this so far.

joema wrote:

Today I discussed it with Pro Apps support; Apple FCP engineering is aware of the problem and are working on it. I filed bug FB11975994 with a canned replication scenario.

IMO the question is whether it's a MacOS bug or FCP bug. Ideally if an OS-level change causes apps to crash, a fix at the OS level is prioritized. However sometimes app developers must make stopgap fixes in the interim.

Hope they solve faster.
Is impossibile to think that you can't use your editing machine.
Because many of pro user are with apple for fcpx, and now you can't use it in any way.
A day you were working on your project... The day after you can't open fcpx. It doesn't have a sense.

This bug plus the one of titles and generators panels that are not open correctly are very bad bugs!

We the consumers are the beta testers.

FCPX has been so stable over the years that we've got used to it. Sadly this timed with a 1600 clip project I've just started, so I've had to move it to Resolve while they sort the problem out.

sconnor99 wrote:

FCPX has been so stable over the years that we've got used to it. Sadly this timed with a 1600 clip project I've just started, so I've had to move it to Resolve while they sort the problem out.

The FCP issue on Ventura 13.2 is definitely serious, however it seems more related to the number of clips in an event than number of clips in the project (aka timeline). I just imported 1600 clips spread across 7 events, then added them to the project and it seems OK. 

Resolve may not have this specific problem but it has many problems of its own. I use Resolve Studio every day and it's a powerful color grading tool. However there are frequent complaints on the Resolve forums about lost timelines, corrupted data, slow performance, etc. I have experienced some of those myself, although it is generally reliable on Mac. 

Teppy wrote:

Hope they solve faster.
Is impossibile to think that you can't use your editing machine.
Because many of pro user are with apple for fcpx, and now you can't use it in any way.
A day you were working on your project... The day after you can't open fcpx. It doesn't have a sense.

Experienced "pro users" don't have software and macOS set to auto update. This helps prevent these kinds of situations. In fact, there isn't really any compelling reason to be running macOS Ventura as far as the current version of FCP is concerned (unless, perhaps, you're on a brand new Mac that came with it preinstalled). It's a good idea to follow forums like fcp.co and wait for a week or two after any macOS update. This issue doesn't occur with macOS 13.1, so prudent waiting would have avoided the issue. Let someone else do the "public beta testing" for Apple.

In a more general situation, if you need to test a new OS or FCP version, you should use a backup or test computer, or you could install things on a temporary external drive. It's all about risk management (if you need to use your gear to do paid work)...

So... No more news about this? To me is a real problem and sometimes I have to jump through hoops to get the job done... for example I had to deliver a simple timelapse and there was no way to close it easily ... I had to break the project into various parts and even projects with less than 100 clips gave problems! 
I'm scared of this silence from apple as well as the fact that final cut hasn't been updated for a while where competition progresses fast (read: da vinci resolve).I admit that I made a mistake in updating MacOS right away but it was a reaction based on trust in Apple... (now lost)

The last I've heard - beginning of this week - was that it is definitely a macOS bug/regression (not a FCP specific one) that will be fixed in the next macOS update, whenever that may come.

hey guys was there a fix for this eventually because I'm experiencing the exact same things to FCP inside Ventura now!
Ian