TOPIC:

Hi, I've recorded one stereo channel (MS-stereo to be precise) and two mono channels (lavaliers) and now I want to have them as just that in FCP. The problem is that I can only choose between 4 mono, 2 stereo or "Left, Right, Centre, Surround".

I want to have the stereo channel as stero because I need to put a MS-plugin on it, and I want to separate the two lavaliers so I can easily cut out one of them at a time in the timeline.

I've tried to give the stereo channels the same role but FCP still doesn't recognize them as a stereo channel.

I imagine that my setup would be a common one so either this is something so easy to do that noone has asked about it here or on the internet, or I've missed everything when searched for it. Thanks for all kind of help!

What was this recorded on? What format is the original recording?

It's recorded on a MixPre6 II, WAV.

So, these are all in one file? Why were they not recorded as separate files?

I think FCP should allow you to take the 4 channel in that one file and in the Audio Inspector, separate them out into one stereo and two mono. I'd have to see the file.

Because it's easier to have them in one file (syncing etc). I've been working with audio for 15+ years so I don't think it's something wring with that part, but I'm all new to FCP. This is what the Audio Inspector looks like: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2mqk6207f4qy11i/Audio%20Inspector%20FCP.png?dl=0Here is a file with the same setup but very (very) short but with no sound from the interview, the configuration would be the same though: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3o62t0bpkeppq9o/4%20ch%20audio.WAV?dl=0Thanks for digging into this!

Unfortunately you stumbled on a little (big) shortcoming in FCP. As fantastic the iXML and roles are for audio work they certainly forgot to think about multi track audio with changing requirements like yours.

In short you can't do what you want in FCP. You have to separate the tracks in an external app and import them separately.

I have several of those audio only clips with a mix of stereo and mono tracks but haven't yet established a workflow as I'm month away from audio post.

If you work out a quick and easy way to separate the clips externally let us know

PS just googled and found this video showing how to use the Audacity app to split tracks. Will try it myself.

Playing a bit more with the WAV multitrack files I discovered that if the files metadata contains the correct information about the tracks, FCP can actually interpret the tracks correctly and allows in the Inspector to set the track configuration accordingly (plus a few more options). See screen shots attached.
But I also have seen that if this metadata is not present in the file you only get the choice of x-amount of mono tracks or x-amount of stereo tracks.
Would be nice if FCP would actually allow you to configure the tracks which ever way you like, regardless of metadata present or not.

Audacity is a great way to split tracks. Another way you could do this is to turn off the channels in FCP in the Inspector by unchecking the two mono tracks. Now export the stereo track as a stereo AIF or WAV. Now uncheck the stereo track and recheck on of the mono tracks. Export that as a mono AIF or WAV. Then do the same with the other mono tack. Then import them all and sync them with the clip. Lower or remove the audio from the original clip and work with the re-imported audio. Kind of a pain, but it's a workaround of sorts. Another thing that kind of sucks about FCP is the lack of export options unless you have Compressor. So exporting a stereo and mono sound file might not be as easy as you'd think. I'm not sure as I have long since created Compressor export presets to do exactly what I want so if I'm wrong in this regard hopefully someone will correct me.

I really wish FCP would allow me to assign individual tracks any way I want. What if I want channel 1 of a stereo recording in the center and channel 2 in the right surround? Sounds wacky, but if I need to do it, FCP won't let me. I'd be content with them just letting each track be it's own independently adjustable mono track that I can apply my own panning to, keyframes and all.

Thanks for looking into this!

I could definitely split all the tracks but that would make it all so much complicated and time consuming so I hope I don't have to go that way. If you want to split there is Wave Agent that is built for this and makes it very fast: www.sounddevices.com/product/wave-agent-software/

I've tried what Carsten mentioned and for 6 channels I can make it stereo + 2 mono + stereo, but with four channels I cannot make it stereo + 2 mono whatever I put in the meta. Have you Carsten or anyone else? And what does the meta/file looks like then?

Hi again,

as Carsten points out the channel handling in FCP seems to be a flaw and realizing that (thanks again for the help) I read this white paper from Apple and worked out this workflow:

1. Import audio/film with audio.
2. Give a subrole to each audio component. For MS-channels give them the same subrole (MS in my case) and pan the first/left one to the left and the second/right to the right in the Pan section in Audio Inspector (see picture 1). It's important to pan in this step!
3. If you don't want the MS-channels to be split when editing you can make it mono by set the file (not the audio components but the top one) to Basic Surround with original to 100. Just remember to shift back to none/stereo later if so!
4. When it's time for export you make a compund clip of the whole timeline. Now you have your audio broles as audio components in the Audio Inspector. Change so that you get your subroles as audio components (picture 2 & 3).
5. Apply a MS plugin to the MS role/component (where channel 1 is to the left and channel 2 to the right as you panned them before) in the timeline.

This workflow is not optimal and I might change it later, but it seems to work right now. A good thing is that besides solving the MS channel problem it also becomes easy to apply effects to other roles/types of channels if you name them after the person having the lavalier, what microphone it's recorded with etc.

Hope this can help someone and if you have suggestions for improvements please share!

/Lasse


Picture 1


Picture 2


Picture 3

Hi Lassee,
As I don't have a clip with the same track layout as you I can only speculate but I think your setup doesn't produce the correct stereo decoding for the MS tracks.

I think they are 2 options:

(I do not have an audio clip with the same audio configuration as you so I can only describe what I just worked out.)
The key is the 'Direction Mixer' audio plugin which is part of the standard FCP install (it's a Logic effect).

Set your channel set up for the audio clip to 2 stereo instead of 4 mono.
Edit your clip into your timeline.
Apply the Direction Mixer plugin to both stereo pairs (the real MS stereo and the the now combined original 2 mono tracks)
Set the Direction Mixer preset on the MS track to MS Decoder, and to 'Stereo to Mono' on the other one.
This way you avoid the pan setting you use.

If you want to keep the 2 mono tracks editable individually I would do the a slightly modified version of your workflow:
Create a new Audio Parent Role called 'MS Tracks'. Create 2 subroles 'MS Mid' and 'MS Side'.
Set your clip channel selection to 4 mono. Then set the MS mid track to the MS Mid subrole and your MS side track to the MS Side subrole of the new 'MS Tracks' Parent Role.
Select 'Stereo/Left/Right' on both the MS tracks. Set the MS Mid to -100 and the MS Side to +100 (this makes sure that the 2 tracks go to individual channels downstream, if you leave the pan in the middle they get combine to mono (in my testing))
Edit your clip into timeline. When finished editing Compound all and then apply the 'Direction Mixer' with the preset MS encoder to the PARENT 'MS Track' Audio Role, not the subroles!
And now the MS tracks are encoded correctly and the 2 mono tracks are still accessible as individual tracks in your edit. What this workflow doesn't allow for is to listen to the MS track decoded while editing because they only get decoded in the compounded version of your edit. But I guess that's ok for edit purposes.

As I don't have a clip with your configuration. please try this and let me know if it works. Maybe I made an error somewhere.

Thanks for the answer and the continuous interest in this question!

When I try my setup it seems to work, it’s actually almost the same as your second workflow (in the white paper it said something about that this was actually how it used to work before). I guess the important thing is that you get one audio component to apply the MS deciding to, in my case a subrole and in your case a parent role. But I’ll listen to my export again, sometimes it’s hard to hear if the MS is decided or not when it’s mostly ambience!

Your first idea is good as well but I’d like to have my the mono tracks editable individually. One idea would of course be to first do the editing on the timeline and then make it all 2 stereo but then one would still be dependent on FCPs way of organizing the track into mono/stereo - next time I might want to pair trk 1&4 into stereo…

Will double check the single role setting for the 2 MS tracks. But glad it works at your end.

By the way remembered the Sound Devices software 'Wave Agent' which allows for easy splitting multi track clips. The great thing is you can crate stereo and mono clips at the same time and in a batch.
www.sounddevices.com/product/wave-agent-software/
The Manual gives great inside to what you can do with Wave Agent: cdn.sounddevices.com/wp-content/uploads/.../04/waveagent_en.pdf

Unfortunately it is not able to edit the metadata so that FCP would interpret the tracks correctly as a combination of stereo and mono tracks. There is always something that doesn't work

I stand corrected. Just doubled checked and yes you do not need to use Subroles for each track of the MS. A single Role applied to both works. The deciding factor is the pan setting for each track whether they combined to mono or left at L and R.