Bloomberg is reporting new information about Apple silicon & Macs for 2021/22

Bloomberg is reporting new information about Apple silicon & Macs for 2021/22

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-...lass-highest-end-pcs

The current M1 chip inherits a mobile-centric design built around four high-performance processing cores to accelerate tasks like video editing and four power-saving cores that can handle less intensive jobs like web browsing. For its next generation chip targeting MacBook Pro and iMac models, Apple is working on designs with as many as 16 power cores and four efficiency cores, the people said.

For higher-end desktop computers, planned for later in 2021 and a new half-sized Mac Pro planned to launch by 2022, Apple is testing a chip design with as many as 32 high-performance cores.

32 cores - Interesting

That is very interesting, but still speculation.  I'm hoping for a very powerful 16" MBP that I can replace both my 2013 rMBP and iMac Pro with.  I use my laptop traveling more now than ever, and one computer would be nice, rather than jumping between two.

The M1 chip is a good chip but it is not as great as the Apple YouTubers lead you to believe. Simply put the M1 chip has something like Intel's Quick Sync but better. It is great for playing back and rendering H.264/265 but when you use BRAW, PRO RES or R3D video files the M1 chip does not really have an advantage over Intel and AMD. Keep in mind AMD, Apple and Intel will all get better over time. I heard Intel's newer 10nm chips have had the Quick Sync revamped but the M1 chips might be better for encoding and decoding H.264/265.

"Quick Sync but better" combined with the same performance for other formats would indeed lead to an advantage over Intel/AMD.

Redifer wrote: "Quick Sync but better" combined with the same performance for other formats would indeed lead to an advantage over Intel/AMD.

I hear ya but the M1 is not going to compete against an RT 3080 and a dedicated 32 core desktop PC just yet. The M1 chip does well against laptops. I am sure as the Apple Silicon gets more cores added they will run hotter and require more wattage. That being said the Apple Desktop chips coming in the next couple of years could be awesome but AMD and Intel will have better CPUs in the future as well? I think things are starting to become interesting. Could we see a Qualcomm Snapdragon desktop CPU in 2022?

First of all, M1 was not designed to compete against 32 core desktop CPUs. There are desktop versions Apple has that will do that very easily. M1 is not the only one of its kind. It is the first, and the smallest.

AMD and Intel's track record over the past several years shows they won't keep up. And SOC is the future, it'll blow away traditional CPUs as it evolves for a variety of technical reasons. We are witnessing the very first, watch what we have a year from now.

Ben Balser wrote: First of all, M1 was not designed to compete against 32 core desktop CPUs. There are desktop versions Apple has that will do that very easily. M1 is not the only one of its kind. It is the first, and the smallest.

AMD and Intel's track record over the past several years shows they won't keep up. And SOC is the future, it'll blow away traditional CPUs as it evolves for a variety of technical reasons. We are witnessing the very first, watch what we have a year from now.

No one said the M1 was designed to compete against desktop CPUs. In my post I implied the M1 is for laptops. I stated Apple will have Desktop CPUs soon but AMD and Intel are not sleeping at the wheel. All Intel needs to do is revamp it's Quick Sync module.

That being said we do know the M1 can get hot and draw more wattage when something other than the H.264/265 video codec is being used. Will Apple's 30 core desktop CPUs run hotter than AMDs 30 core CPU? We simply don't know. The M1 chip seems to do well when compared to other laptops but we cannot assume that Apple's 32 core Desktop CPUs will be better than what AMD and Intel have to offer in another two years. The bigger questions to ask is will Qualcomm make a Snapdragon desktop CPU if Apple's ARM processors are better than what AMD and Intel have to offer? Could we see Windows 11 become ARM based? I think that is a question worth asking but who knows what the future holds?

#1 - Why do you keep posting that Youtube video? I think once was enough.

#2 - Windows 10 already has an ARM build.

#3 - "I think that is a question worth asking but who knows what the future holds?" The second part of your sentence negates the first part. Nobody knows what the future holds. So at this point in time the questions don't matter.

Your first sentence in your first post in this thread said "The M1 chip is a good chip but it is not as great as the Apple YouTubers lead you to believe" and then you later say "The M1 chip does well against laptops." Exactly. The new chips are not trying to compete with anything else. You yourself admit that it does well against other laptops. So it kinda is as good as we are led to believe. I'm not sure what your goal here is. It's only in two products right now as far as I know and it does well against similarly-priced competition. So what is your point? There are no questions worth asking right now. We'll see what the future holds.

redifier,

Or should I address you as the Night Watchmen? 

I posted the video again because I doubt Ben Watched it.

That being said does Qualcomm have a Desktop Snapdragon CPU that I am not aware of?

No one said there is not a Windows ARM build. I know there is. The earlier cheap version of the MS Surface Pros used a 32 bit ARM Processor.  Back then the ARM Processors were not as desirable as what Intel had to offer. My statement was not about Windows and ARM. I was asking if Qualcomm would make a Desktop Snapdragon CPU for Windows computers. That is the key part of my post not Windows and ARM. As I stated we don't know how well Apple's Desktop ARM CPUs will be.  My comment was meant for Ben. It would appear AMD and Intel are stuck in a rut but we cannot assume they will not have something new to offer in another two years.

In Ben's  prior post he stated the M1 chip is not designed to compete against desktop CPUs. I think we all know that.

What is my goal? I don't have a goal. I simply offered some valid points.

1st: For people to realize Apple's desktop chips may or may not be better than the competition from AMD and Intel just because the M1 seems to be good for laptops. Everyone on Youtube and in many forums have already stated Apple's Desktop chips will kill Intel. That is speculation. It may or may not happen.

2nd: To also realize the M1 chip can use more wattage and get hotter than some folks had original thought. The M1 was using a technology similar to Intel's Quick Sync but better. Keep in mind Intel can revamp their Quick Sync. No one mentions that.

3rd: If ARM does to prove to be superior could Qualcomm maybe create a desktop CPU to compete with Apple? Who knows?

I don't think there is anything wrong with my comments. I think they are all valid.

arc wrote: ...the M1 can get hot and draw more wattage when something other than the H.264/265 video codec is being used...we cannot assume that Apple's 32 core Desktop CPUs will be better than what AMD and Intel have to offer in another two years...

In the posted video, she is correct but the test was atypical for most real world situations. She was creating proxies for 4k ProRes 422 *originals*. Why would you ever do that? ProRes is *already* optimized media. The proxy type was unstated but Resolve does not support H264 internal proxies. On Resolve 16.x, typically you'd select 50% ProRes proxies, but apparently Resolve 17 beta has a new menu for proxies which likely defaults to something like that.

For some reason if Resolve transcodes ProRes originals to ProRes proxies, it's incredibly compute-intensive. Even on the x86 version of Resolve 16.2.7 Studio on my iMac Pro, it pegs both GPU and all CPU cores, and spins up the fans to high speed. I normally never hear iMac Pro fans, yet she cleverly found a procedure which maxes them out. Of course you can do the same thing with an artificial "yes" test using terminal, but that would not have the superficial appearance of legitimacy: https://osxdaily.com/2012/10/02/stress-test-mac-cpu/

By contrast creating the same 50% resolution ProRes Proxy files from 4k ProRes originals on the same iMac Pro using FCPX 10.5 (not Resolve), it is quiet and doesn't use the GPU, just CPU cores at about 75-80%. But it does take longer -- about 4 min vs Resolve's 2.5 min. For this one odd case it's possible Resolve somehow uses the GPU as a general-purpose computing resource, which roughly doubles the heat output. It's a neat trick but you'd normally never create ProRes proxies from ProRes originals.

In a normal (not contrived) situation you'd be creating 50% ProRes proxies for a *difficult* original codec such as 4k H264. In that case you are limited on H264 decode performance which uses dedicated hardware acceleration, not a GPU or CPU. For this common case Resolve 16.2.7 and FCPX 10.5 on my iMac Pro both take the same time and Resolve does not spin up the fans or peg the GPU. If she ran that real-world case on the M1, the results would likely be similar and she'd have no shocking video, therefore less viewers.

Intel has not been able to get their 5 nanometer process to work. Their next generation of chips will be 10 NM. By the time they get to 5 where will Apple be? The next few years of chip design and manufacturing will be very interesting.

Yes, I saw that video the day it was posted and had a good laugh at her.

There are issues with how she is presenting her argument with several assumptions she never gives data to back up. Fans? Yeah, I can make any computer max out Its fans and raise its temperature in 30 seconds. Doesn't mean its a bad computer. Doesn't mean it can't do the work. She does absolutely no actual editing, and is performing a rediculous operation, just to show the fans can spin up, and it can get warm inside. Those are not temperatures what will "melt down" a computer, either.

Her old laptop she pulls out?  It has VERY LOUD fans that spin up way easier and was notorious for heat issues.  So why does she still have that?  Yeah, Mac Plus that was my first computer still works, but why would I still use it?  That proves nothing.

The M1 will break down in a few months?  No information presented to back that statement up.  Apple has never made a product that "broke down in a few months".  So yeah, I call a lot of bullshit in that video.

Let's not pay any attention to her opening statement that all the other YouTubers out there are in some conspiracy to mislead you, and she alone will show you the truth.  That is a red flag right there.

I mean, no professional editor who does heavy long form work would buy an M1 MBP for editing anyway.  We're all waiting for the desktop or 16" Mx MBP to come out.

But, as a retired IT engineer, what do I know?  Not much according to Arc, who is so much wiser than any of us.

Carry on...

Larrie wrote: Intel has not been able to get their 5 nanometer process to work. Their next generation of chips will be 10 NM. By the time they get to 5 where will Apple be? The next few years of chip design and manufacturing will be very interesting.

I agree things are going to be very interesting when Apple completes the switch from Intel to Apple in three years. That is kind of my point. Keep in mind the first gen 10nm AMD CPUs were not that great. That being said Intel is no stranger to ARM and the next gen Intel Quick Sync is supposed to support more H.264/265 variations. Some people think Alder Lake might put Intel out in front. It may it may not but all the CPUs from AMD, Intel and Apple will be better than we what we have thus far. Intel is not going to bring back the Pentium 4. 

Ben Balser wrote:
Let's not pay any attention to her opening statement that all the other YouTubers out there are in some conspiracy to mislead you, and she alone will show you the truth.  That is a red flag right there.

I mean, no professional editor who does heavy long form work would buy an M1 MBP for editing anyway.  We're all waiting for the desktop or 16" Mx MBP to come out.

But, as a retired IT engineer, what do I know?  Not much according to Arc, who is so much wiser than any of us.

Carry on...

No on has stated the M1 chip is no good but Most YouTubers are only editing H.264/265. When other video codecs are used the M1 might not seem as impressive. It is worth mentioning. That being said it has been confirmed the new Intel CPUs will have a revamped version of Intel's Quick Sync that will support more variations of H.264/H.265. That is defiantly worth mentioning don't you think? As an IT guy shouldn't you have mentioned that? That is not to say Intel's next gen CPUs will encode and decode H.264/H265 better than the M1 CPUs.

No one said anything about professional video editing. The lady in the video simply showed what kind of results are possible. Why would that upset you?

When did I say you don't know anything? I will say we don't know if Apple's Desktop CPUs will be the end all Desktop CPU but What do I know? I only used to work for the City Of Detroit's Cable Commission editing on an $80,000.00 Mac based Avid Media Composer and helped out on over 1000 video projects. Having said that just because someone works on an Avid Media composer it would not correlate to knowing about how to install a CPU, assign PCI slot and adjust the PCI latency timer. I know people with IT degrees that have never used FDISK let alone know how to delete the master boot record. Do you see my point?

typical pervert post from arc who found the only YouTube video with that tone. proved wrong by many here. this video is stupid.

how long can a toxical hater keep on using this forum for his psychological releave ? the guy has a problem. he his some kind of funeral videomaker, a video undertaker. we don't have to be exposed to his mood ...

I have deleted a reply form arc wherein he has insulted another user using a word that I refuse to repeat.
We do not tolerate name-calling on this forum. Nor will I tolerate spreading false information. 

I agree that the posted video is misleading. This YouTuber makes abuse of a well-known issue with Resolve to try and demonstrate that the M1 chip can get really hot with certain codecs. That is incorrect. Resolve has a known bug that can make any computer run crazy when you try to create ProRes proxy media from another ProRes codec. This bug has first been reported to me months ago by my friend James Tonkin who saw his maxed-out 2019 Mac Pro heat up when doing that same thing. He was batching tons of 6K ProRes clips when he reported this issue, but it can also happen with just one long clip.

The lady in the video seems nice, but she completely misses the point. I think she just wanted to create some click-bait video to revive her fading channel. And that's OK. But further spreading this video on forums to throw doubts about the M1 chip, while the vast majority of honest real-world tests done by renowned specialists clearly show that the M1 is indeed a revolutionary new chip for laptops, shows poor judgment and is totally misleading. Using that same misinformation to raise doubtful questions on the future of the Apple chips is flat-out trolling.

I am closing this thread and this is my final warning to arc. 

- Ronny