First review: rough selects vs detailed keywords [FCPX Workflow Question]

When jumping into the fray in FCPX, which do you prefer:

A ) watch the entire footage and make just rejects and rough selections, to then be reviewed and keyworded in a second viewing.
B ) keywords on the first go around, organizing as much on the first viewing, even if that creates redundancies in keywords
C ) ...

The right organizational approach is one of the most important aspects in tackling a project. And coming from and AVID and Adobe Premiere background, it seems in FCP organization seems even more important – and effortless.

So what's your favorite workflow?

How do you wrap your head around the footage?

How do you attack selections and keywords?

This really a personal matter, you should try. it might be according to you and even ... according to "Project", kind of work.. etc

Consider that, compared to Avid en Premiere (the 20th century paradigm), you enter a world of liberty and many options !

Things to consider (though)

- you might want to do the most classification "at first pass"
- Keep in mind that Keywords "travel" to Sequence (FcpX "Project") and are present in Timeline Index. (Searchable, etc)
- Consider "Markers" , they go to Timeline also, are highly searchables everywhere,
Sometimes (many times) with the right use, they are more convenient than Keywords

enno wrote: ...A) watch the entire footage and make just rejects and rough selections, to then be reviewed and keyworded in a second viewing.
keywords on the first go around, organizing as much on the first viewing, even if that creates redundancies in keywords...

See these prior posts for general approaches:

www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/...fcpx-keywords#107806

www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/...w-suggestions#108930

Other comments:

- Smooth *post* production work begins with sticking to certain procedures during *production*. E.g, all cameras and audio recorders should be set to the correct time of day and re-verified each production day. All cameras should usually be on the same frame rate, and this should match the frame rate planned for editing and final release. All cameras should have good "scratch" audio. All cameras should generally use the same or similar color profile. You don't want one camera set to "vivid" and another set to SLog3.

If you don't trust the camera & recorder operators to do the above, a DIT or assistant should inspect the cameras and recorders before each production day begins. This includes gimbal, drone, action and time-lapse cameras.

If you're "only" the editor or assistant, maybe you have no control over those things. However the consequences of improper file and camera management can be immense. It can mean the difference between a three day initial edit vs a two-month initial edit. Giving tactful but frank feedback and keeping upper management informed of the costs resulting from the production decisions can help streamline future projects.

- During offload all files should be organized according to a procedure. One method is have a folder for each production day, and within that folder have a folder named for camera+operator, e.g, JoeA7S3. Audio for each production day should be offloaded into a named folder.

- Ideally each filename over the entire production should be unique. One way to achieve this is adding a 5-digit incrementing serial number to each file as they are offloaded. This requires keeping track of the highest serial number, then for the next offload use that + 1. This is easy to do using Finder:


- Re rating and keywording, before doing any of that, label any required audio/video roles. E.g, if audio includes interview dialog, natural sound, voiceover, etc, label those roles or sub-roles. See below.

Larry Jordan "How I Use Audio Roles": larryjordan.com/articles/final-cut-pro-x-how-i-use-audio-roles/

MacBreak Studio "Role-Assigned Voiceover":

After labeling roles, any multicam or external audio material should be synchronized, ideally using multicam not sync clips. This first requires labeling the camera name or angle name for all clips from each camera. Then run Event Browser in "hide rejected" to avoid accidental keywording and use of the parent single-camera clips.

- Re keywording in 1st pass or doing rejects/favorites and then keywording in a 2nd pass: The keyword system you choose must be informed by knowledge of the material. It must be carefully planned with one purpose: to practically assist the final editor. You can't just plow through it, keywording stuff in a knee-jerk fashion. Otherwise you'll end up with a complex, cumbersome keyword system that's not useful.

- In general I'd favor at least two passes through the material. The 1st pass would be an initial survey where you mark rejects and favorites. The Browser should already be in "hide favorites" to suppress parent clips of multicams. Hopefully by then you'll have an approximate idea of content and can plan a concise, sparse keyword system. Always ask yourself, "Does the editor need to know this? Will it help him/her?"

- The final editor must become very familiar with the material. Keywords are not a substitute for that. In general keywords should help the editor find difficult-to-locate material. The FCPX skimmer is very fast and the editor will use that liberally. This isn't like "bins" on a NLE where the editor must tediously load each clip into a source monitor to view it.

- Resist the temptation to clutter the keyword system with obvious things which the editor likely won't need. E.g, why keyword all shots as day or night? Why keyword shots as male, female, child, etc. The keyword system should be consistent. You don't want clips keyworded as "smiling", "happy", "glad", etc. Pick one word and use that consistently.

Some things are often time-consuming for the editor. E.g, finding matching b-roll for interview dialog. Or the reverse: finding interview dialog to cover a striking visual. Keywording those things help a lot but it's time-consuming (whoever does it).

If the production has various perspectives, consider keywording that. E.g, documentary on a school teacher with portions covering her family life, her work at school, her education and upbringing, conflicts or difficulties, extra-curricular volunteer work, PTA meetings, etc.

After completing the project, discuss with editor what worked and what didn't. Based on that feedback adjust keyword system on future projects.

Joema, again, your knowledge and grasp on workflow and FCP is not only impressive, but supremely useful – because you share it.

So, a big thank you. Very helpful and instructive.

Thanks Xavier. So, when in your workflow would you set markers? And do you use any clips notes at all?

I add markers as soon as possible," first pass" on ITW for instance.

Markers prevail on anything when it comes to" ITW main phrases transcript" in my opinion. You can see them on list view. For that I found them more convenient than tons of keywords piling and cluttering. And they are searchable on Timeline Index. (Like, when your in front of a 90' edited film. and " where do that guy say that ? "

Notes are great too, since they are searcheable also in Library/Event Browser, but good for "categorization refining".

I use markers from start to finish, in the Browser and in the Timeline.
Don't overlook Favorite and Rejected tags, as they can stand for anything, not just Fav or Rej.
Notes are super powerful, and I use them all the time.

Keywords are only a drop in the bucket of the media management arsenal you have available in FCPX. My first pass is keywording stuff, but after that, I'm using all the other tools. Media management goes on throughout the whole edit process, not just at the start (although at the start is the most important time to do it).

An, don't forget that all of this metadata is most powerful when used to create Smart Collections, that's where it all really shines.

Sounds like you're all using a combination of keywords, markers and notes. And I know this is highly individual and probably also a case by case decision. Just for me to frame it up correctly:

What do you tend to use keywords for?
I'm guessing for general tags, like BRoll, type of action, Location A/B/C, wipe.

What do you tend to use markers and notes for?
Are you using them interchangeably or for specific aspects of reviewing?
My best guess would be Notes for general shot description and notes, Markers for specific moments and calling out details

Events for each scene, standard reusable media, one that simply has camera source keyword collections.

Keywords to group by camera source, actor, shot type, etc.

Smart Collections for grouping stills, music, etc.

Fav and Rej tags for just that. Usable and unusable segments of takes. On shorter projects, I'll sometimes use Fav for subject shots and Rej for B-Roll.

Notes I mostly use for transcribing with Simon Says or Scribomatic. Sometimes I'll actually use notes that are descriptive of the scene. If it helps search for it.

Markers I use mostly for lining things up in the Timeline and To-Do markers to remind me where to pick up on an edit the next day, or to hand work off to an assistant.

But I'll tell you my FIRST line of media management, CLIP NAMING! Come up with a standardized naming convention (scene_shot_take) and that will save you more time and headaches than anything else.

And this is all subjective. Come up with a system that works for you and your studio and stick to it.

It also depends what nature your project is. I use the Metadata option plus Smart Lis amor then Keywords. Especially since Keywords are not searchable in the Browser in FCPX.
Keywords are used for general tagging. Everything else goes into the Annotation and Metadata.

Keywords are listed in the Browser which is super easy to find, and are only searchable in the Browser with a Smart Collection (or just the regular search filter), but not, as previously stated, in the default search text field..

Creating a smart collection to "collect a keyword" seems redundant unless you want to have them all bundled which kinda defeats the purpose of Keywording or using Folders. But yes I agree using the Information in the inspectors is defiantly more powerful and flexible than Keywords. Much better then AVID and Premiere!

Also if you add a Media Management tool that is compatible with FCPX in the equation then your are golden!

AppleGuru wrote: Creating a smart collection to "collect a keyword" seems redundant unless you want to have them all bundled which kinda defeats the purpose of Keywording or using Folders...

Since the search scope for keyword collections is within an event, putting those within a library-wide smart collection enables library-wide keyword collections. Library-wide smart collections were added in version 10.2.

Before that, events were sort of "data fences" that impeded broader searches by keyword collections. Now we have the best of both worlds: both keyword collections and regular smart collections search within an event (which you often want). But if required, a library smart collection can search across all events and by putting keyword collections inside them, keyword collections can do likewise.

Obviously for this to work well you'd need consistent naming for keyword collections. E.g, in each event use the keyword "interviews", not a mixed-up combination of "interview" (singular), "discussions", "conversations", etc.

AppleGuru wrote: Creating a smart collection to "collect a keyword" seems redundant unless you want to have them all bundled which kinda defeats the purpose of Keywording or using Folders.

As I actually use keyword searches in Smart Collections often, I have to strongly disagree. It is very useful, as I often need to combine things like specific subjects with specific cameras at specific locations. A Smart Collection combining these keywords makes my life really easy.

As said before there are many ways to organise but here is what I do:
I always use events as part of my organising strategy.

on small projects: I use events as scene containers e.g. Milking, Bring Cows home, Feed Cows etc. THEN I go through every clip and only use favourites to mark the best moments and rejects for entire clips I will not use. If I use keywords I only use them for very specific tasks e.g. that I see her dog is always around and I want quick access to every shot of that dog through all events (in this case equal to scenes) so I mark every shot or part of a shot w a keyword ‘dog’

For large projects: I use events to organise by shooting location. Next I use keywords as you would if you tag a footage library. Every clip gets keyword(s) for its entirety describing the content that is meaningful to me e.g. talent in clip, location type (landscape, underwater, etc), time of day (sunrise, sunset, etc), animal behaviour (mating, feeding, etc). NOT every clip needs all the keywords but just whatever applies. I can do this without watching the whole clip but just skimming through. And I do not have to predefine keywords but build the collection of keywords as I go. After this is done I organise the keywords into folders e.g People, Location, time of day, animal, behaviour etc. And lastly I go through every clip and mark favourites for best moments or rejects for clips I will not use. The latter I use sparsely and mostly on entirely unusable clips. I look at this as favourites is a positive selection and reject a negative. So when I mark a positive part I do not have to mark the rest as negative to get the result which is mainly filter the clips to only show me the positive bits. Reject a complete clip only when it is unusable in it’s entirety.
When editing I then select mostly the ‘show favourites only’ view and use either events in small projects or keywords in large projects to filter the group of clips I want to look at. In large projects you can also use smart collections to save common ‘filters’ I use etc. animal A + mating.

This is what works for me and what I think can be done very time efficiently.

I 2nd the note about roles. Get that organised first or at least in large projects at the same time as doing the first basic keywords setup. It can be done after the edit but it’s much easier at the beginning. It takes some experience though to get your head around so I wouldn’t spent too much time at the beginning as it requires you to understand what you can achieve w roles. The big thing in any organising system for me is too avoid redundant tasks at all cost! Why spent a day keywording or ‘role setting’ if they will never be used. I rather spent the day editing

Best, Carsten