Comic filter and YouTube?

Hey!

So... I did a video with the new Comic filter (I know, I know).

Trying to upload it but YouTube just slaughters it... even worse than usual... I thought that because there only a set number of colours and I don't use filmgrain as I usually do that it would actually look good on YouTube, but no.
I've tried to upload an .mp4 and a ProRes file... ProRes might be slightly better but it's quite marginal.

Uploaded on Frame.io looks better but also bigger loss than I thought...

What the eff is going on??

Look at the difference!!! One is YouTube (in 1080p) other one is ProRes file...

In short, it's the victim of "one size fits all" encoding. The encoders are geared towards the complexity of live color and shading such as skin. It looks as if the edges are dithered which would be a good thing to avoid banding during compression of skin or skies but not good for the solid colors used here. Back "in the day" an expert compressionist would tweak the algorithm to the content. x264 itself allows that in ffmpeg or maybe Handbrake but Youtube (or FrameIO) isn't going to have those kinds of user controls.

Handbrake makes it simple to set Tune for Animation. That's actually a series com Command Line x264 functions being done for you.

cseeman wrote: Handbrake makes it simple to set Tune for Animation. That's actually a series com Command Line x264 functions being done for you.

Will try to give that a go. But how will this prevent YouTube from then ruining it when uploaded?

DmitriZigany wrote:

cseeman wrote: Handbrake makes it simple to set Tune for Animation. That's actually a series com Command Line x264 functions being done for you.

Will try to give that a go. But how will this prevent YouTube from then ruining it when uploaded?

Sadly it won't help YouTube which will mash it with their indiscriminate encoder. You may want to see if another service like Vimeo will do a better job.

cseeman wrote: Sadly it won't help YouTube which will mash it with their indiscriminate encoder. You may want to see if another service like Vimeo will do a better job.

Problem is that it's a music video... you have to be on YouTube with those... I'm so tired of YouTube ruining my work!

Maybe Vevo. But I bet they'll crunch it as well.
www.vevo.com

EDIT: Darn, it looks like they moved to YouTube as well.

Try uploading Apple ProRes HQ and see how it holds up.

Compression in general hates solid colors and also too much random and unpredictable detail, such as confetti. It also hates night time. I cannot wait for the day when this is no longer an issue. But I feel we're still a ways away from that day.

Compression can be tweaked to handle solid colors. I had a friend who was the compressionist for the Cartoon Network and there's quite a bit you can do if you have full access and understanding of the algorithms. The most challenging is when mixing live action and solid color animation. CDNs such has YouTube don't offer those controls of course but those controls are there in x264 and x265..

A few years ago I was also dealing with this issue:

www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/...can-you-look-at-this

Bottom line is that it is something with the way way YT encodes, or as problems encoding certain aspects as mentioned above.

I remember there was a way to keyframe problem areas of a video using either some settings in Compressor, or maybe it was in the old FCP 7 suite. That's when I decided to step away....life is to short. But it is very anoying..

Compression Markers in Compressor. When burning to DVD they were necessary in a lot of cases where the video went from not much motion to a lot of motion, or back. They don't help that much with H.264 I've found. Compression Markers simply tell the encoding engine to look at the motion in that section of video more carefully than the rest of the clip. But that old MPEG-2 for DVD was horrible, H.264 really doesn't need that help, it's much more sophisticated.

cseeman wrote: Try uploading Apple ProRes HQ and see how it holds up.

Have uploaded mp4 and ProRes. They look very similar. Doubt ProResHQ will make much of a difference vs ProRes 422.

Jonathan Levin wrote: A few years ago I was also dealing with this issue:

It's a constant battle with YT... I'm used to the fact that YoiuTube ruins the footage, but this was on a whole new level.
And I actually thought that it would look better than usual as I usally use film grain etc... so was quite a shock... and not sure what to do. Quality is so bad and as music videos have to be on YouTube, I will sort of be to blame for making something that doesn't work on YouTube...

Wonder what to do for the future... Put in a contract that "I'm not resposible for quality of any host site's compression"?

Redifer wrote: Compression in general hates solid colors and also too much random and unpredictable detail, such as confetti. It also hates night time. I cannot wait for the day when this is no longer an issue. But I feel we're still a ways away from that day.

I know, I usually use film grain and YouTube hates that. Usually looks good on vimeo. But music videos need to be on YouTube as that's where the audience is...