Keywords from Folders

Hi everybody this is my first post but it's been a long time reading fcp.co. So thanks for all the good work and keeping me update.

I don't really get the option of keywords from folders. I mean ok if I import one folder with media it puts a keyword with the media inside. Quite helpful but if I have a bit more complicate structure like this:

Folder 1 DAY 1
Folder 2 DAY 1_John_lake (some clips of John fishing the first day)
Folder 3 DAY 1_John_mountain
Folder 4 DAY 1_John_mountain_Clair (some clips of John with Clair)
Folder 5 DAY 1_John_mountain_walking (some clips of John walking alone)

If I import Folder DAY 1 then what I get in fcp x is a mess. Instead of having the above structure I have 5 keywords. Not any parent folder or "parent keyword" with sub folder-sub keyword. Just 5 keywords one after another.

The keyword named "Folder 1 DAY 1" has all the clips BUT thats not what I need. I need the above structure. I need when I choose folder 1 to see that there are two more folders one at the lake and one at the mountain. The keywords cannot contain another keyword. So I need to make a folder manually. Also the folder cannot contain clips. So in order to make it simple visually for folder 2 I have to make a folder 2 and then put inside a keyword which will have the clips.

I am not sure if I described my though quite well but I hope you get what I am saying. The problem is that if I want to keep the above structure I have to do it manually and takes much much hour. Premiere keeps the exact same folder structure by just importing the parent folder ~ as a friend editor told me~...

Yorgos Savoglou wrote: ...I don't really get the option of keywords from folders....

IMO you generally want to do most of your organizing (inc'l range-based rating & tagging) inside FCPX, not outside. This is different from previous editors which had such poor database capability that extensive folder-level organization was the only choice. However folder-level organizing is very limited: a clip can only be in one folder unless it's duplicated. What if a long clip at the beginning has people crying, the middle of it has a child smiling, and the end of the clip has people hugging and laughing? Does it go in the folder labeled crying, or kids, or happy?

That said, importing keywords from folders (or Finder tags) is advantageous in some cases. In our documentary work we have a top-level folder by shooting day, and within that camera-named folders: DVX200, A7RII, A6500, A6300, GH5, etc.

Importing keywords from folders solves some big problems: it automatically tags the content with the camera name and shooting day. To sync a multi-cam clip, each parent clip (inc'l audio only) must be given a camera name or camera angle in the Inspector. Yet some cameras like the Sonys use repeating file names and there is no way to override that and there's no EXIF data to easily distinguish between them.

Having the imported material auto-keyworded with camera name allows easy batch-oriented naming of camera or angle in the Inspector as a prelude to creating multicam clips. Procedure described here by Sam Mestman: www.fcpworks.com/sync-or-multicam-clips/

Re shooting day, you normally shouldn't need this as the file dates should have that info. However sometimes the camera or audio recorder clocks are not set right. Since our material is off-loaded from cameras in the field by shooting day, we get this info for free.

Everyone does this differently and there is no single right way. It is great you can also import Finder tags, and using FinderCat go the opposite way and export FCPX keywords as Finder tags: itunes.apple.com/us/app/findrcat/id1179548411?mt=12

However my preference is do minimal organization at the Finder level, import that, then do most of the organization within FCPX. Nothing is as fast as FCPX at skimming material and tagging it. It's inefficient to spend lots of time organizing content at the folder/file level (which is limited anyway), then import to FCPX, then organize it again inside. Either way you have to scrub through the data and classify it. Why not do that inside FCPX which is far faster than browsing content with VLC or Preview or Quick Look or even tools like Kyno?

Another issue is the paradigm mismatch between organizing by hierarchical folders vs the FCPX database-oriented method. Just like a relational database, FCPX is not designed to replicate a hierarchical folder tree once imported. Rather than think of imported content as a tree, think of it as a database that you query according to tags which you apply. This video "One Smart Collection to Rule Them All" shows some of the techniques:

Yes, the big problem is you're thinking Folder=Keyword=Bin. WRONG! Keywords are simple metadata, not a physical container.

You can keyword all that, then make a Folder in the Event, and place all those keyword collections inside that Folder. I do this with audio all the time. I have a Folder called Audio. In there is a Smart Collection for audio-only files, then other keyword collections for VO - Tom, VO - Debbie, Music, SFX. Folley, etc.

What you're trying to do is make keywords a folder, you'll just get frustrated trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

The only time I do keywords from folders in on the set of reality or other TV shows that are fast paced and have tons of footage. I only make folders based on camera names and camera card numbers. I do this on a laptop that may or may not have FCPX on it. Then at the end of the day, import it all into FCPX, and I START my organization based on camera cards, then expand from there.

The old model is that things are defined by the containers that hold, bins, folders, even tracks define the content. In FCP clips and other content are defined by tags that are attached to them, and they go wherever the clips goes.

If you use tags rather than folders in the Finder, these work much more efficiently for organizing and transferring to FCP.

I understand what you're saying even though I am not familiar with that kind of organising.
I work in TV where I edit documentaries.
So in my case I have some footage that the camera operators put in a folder by date and operator's name.

I take this footage and going through with my director and he gives me the keywords. For example these 4 clips are John's interview from camera 1 and camera two. I put them in the same keyword and then synch them in a multicam clip. Then we go through the shots. The voice over talks for 5 bridges that an architecture build. So I take the clips for each bridge and make a keyword. I might make two parent folders and keywords if I have two architectures with 5 bridge each one. By this way I know which bridge is which and what shot I put over the voice over. Even if i work with metadata I'll have to put a note or something over the cops that distinguish the bridges.

But in some cases there are operators or assistant directors who make that structure in finder. So, in that case it would be nice if fop x could keep that structure.

So can I have your thoughts now that I am more specific?

Thanks a lot...

There are no media folders or bins as such inside FCPX. There are a single level of events and there are folders for grouping keyworld collections. FCPX is not designed to capture and represent tree-like hierarchical folder structures. Trying to do that will be an exercise in frustration.

Premiere keeps the folder structure but it has very limited media management. It is very difficult to manage the content of a large documentary in Premiere. I have tried that and ended up writing a complex spreadsheet.

By contrast FCPX has a built-in database. It is vastly more powerful and far better suited for large-scale documentary work. But you *must* adapt to the new paradigm and learn to use that. There is no other way. FCPX will never change and adopt some folder-like media management.

As Tom said if you are determined to do lots of organizational work at the Finder level it's better to use Finder tags for that. However my general recommendation is do the minimum possible amount of file-level organization, whether that's folders or Finder tags. Try to do most of your organizing inside FCPX using ratings and keywords.

Re multicam clips, IMO it's better to not rate/tag the original parent clips in FCPX. This is because those are not carried over to the multicam clip. Rather it's better to sync the clip, mark "rejected" the parent clips, then rate/tag only the multicam clip. Otherwise the final editor will waste time redundantly studying both parent clips and the MC clip. The only downside is you cannot rate/tag a specific angle in a MC clip, however most editors will immediately grasp why that clip range was rated/keyworded when they see it.

Re your question about keywords from folders, these can be applied in a heirarchical fashion. If your media tree has shooting days, and within each shooting day subfolders by cameras or operators, both will be applied. All imported clips will have "coarse" keywords for shooting day, and within each shooting day finer-grain keywords by camera type or operator. If you want to apply additional metadata at the file level you can use Finder tags for that.

If you are working with your director to organize the material this can easily be done within FCPX. If you're in the field and don't have time to import it you can use Finder tags, but FCPX is so fast at importing using "leave files in place" that is a possible option.

When marking favorite ranges in FCPX, you can also type in descriptive notes for each one. You must switch the event browser from filmstrip mode to List View, then mark the range, hit tab about twice and it will automatically jump to the notes field for that favorite. Afterward you can search for the description you entered.

Edit/add: you can also rename the favorite itself, not just add a notes field, and do it all from the keyboard without touching the mouse. In List View use JKL to find the desired range, mark it with I and O, then press tab, right arrow, down arrow and Enter to rename the favorite. Then down arrow to advance to the next clip and repeat. After practice this method is very fast. The renamed favorites are searchable from the search bar.

Another 3rd party tool is Kyno which I think can browse and tag the material at a file level then import that to FCPX: lesspain.software/kyno/ However IMO Kyno is not as fast as just importing to FCPX and organizing there. OTOH if you need some rudimentary folder-level organizing before import, in the field you might not have time for this so maybe Kyno or Finder tags would work.

For capturing even more detail during production you can use LumberJack. It is very easy to use and the metadata can be imported to your FCPX library: lumberjacksystem.com/

Here are some more tutorials on FCPX organizing:

Basic ratings workflow:
Warp-speed keywording:
Warp-speed organizing: