Fully Loaded imac dropping frames during multicam editing (Using proxies)

nils.dettmann wrote: I thought we were talking about frame drops in the multicam editor when all angles have to be streamed in parallel.

One factor is also the datarate of the sources at least in non-proxy-mode.

We were talking about frame drops in a six-angle multicam music video in proxy mode. He's already put it in proxy, so (assuming he did that OK and flipped the viewer mode) it shouldn't be doing much I/O to the original res source files. If it's an I/O limit, it is I/O to the proxy files not to the original resolution files.

He said it happens "when editing a music video". That could imply he is adding certain effects which can cause sluggish, halting behavior from CPU/GPU load, not just from I/O. To differentiate the possible causes he could fully render the timeline and try scrubbing or remove all effects from a problematic clip and try scrubbing that.

Either way he needs to move his media -- including the library -- off the boot drive and put it on a fast external drive or array. However that will only help if the problem is I/O rate.

What I've learned during my actual Project (14 angle Multicam) with tips from the FCPX community:

- work in Proxy mode
- viewer quality should be on “better performance“
- hide any audio waveforms in the timeline
- close the inspector
- Cache on SSD (or internal) rather than where the Footage is

Daniel Rutledge wrote: I have a much less robust system than you and I do 4-6 angles of 4K in proxy on a regular basis with no real performance issues. I don't know what the problem is, but you shouldn't be having any trouble. I edit off of G-Tech portable USB-3 7200rpm drives, so the throughput on the thunderbolt should be faster than what I have. Maybe the drive is faulty or there is some bad hardware or a bug involved. But there is no reason that you should have that problem with your setup. Maybe try a different external, and if the problem persists contact Apple.

Well like I said originally I was using the internal Fusion drive of my iMac to store my library. I am going to switch my libraries over to the external via thunderbolt 7200RPM Lacie drive and see how it works for my next multicam project

The effect in this were pretty minimal just some B&W and Hardlight presets the I customized slightly. I didnt render the whole time line but I did unclick the blue light to turn off the plug-ins and it still happened occasionally. I got through that music video but I am starting to edit a new one next week. I will start that one with my library and proxy media on the external drive and keep you guys posted on that

joema wrote:

nils.dettmann wrote: I thought we were talking about frame drops in the multicam editor when all angles have to be streamed in parallel.

One factor is also the datarate of the sources at least in non-proxy-mode.

We were talking about frame drops in a six-angle multicam music video in proxy mode. He's already put it in proxy, so (assuming he did that OK and flipped the viewer mode) it shouldn't be doing much I/O to the original res source files. If it's an I/O limit, it is I/O to the proxy files not to the original resolution files.

He said it happens "when editing a music video". That could imply he is adding certain effects which can cause sluggish, halting behavior from CPU/GPU load, not just from I/O. To differentiate the possible causes he could fully render the timeline and try scrubbing or remove all effects from a problematic clip and try scrubbing that.

Either way he needs to move his media -- including the library -- off the boot drive and put it on a fast external drive or array. However that will only help if the problem is I/O rate.

The effect in this were pretty minimal just some B&W and Hardlight presets the I customized slightly. I didnt render the whole time line but I did unclick the blue light to turn off the plug-ins and it still happened occasionally. I got through that music video but I am starting to edit a new one next week. I will start that one with my library and proxy media on the external drive and keep you guys posted on that

Fleak wrote: What I've learned during my actual Project (14 angle Multicam) with tips from the FCPX community:

- work in Proxy mode
- viewer quality should be on “better performance“
- hide any audio waveforms in the timeline
- close the inspector
- Library & Cache on SSD (or internal) rather than where the Footage is

I am on my new project now and I moved the library onto an external drive Lacie 3TB 7200RPM HDD via thunderbolt d2.

-I am working in proxy mode
-hid the waveforms in the timeline
-and closed the inspector

But still it drops frames whenever I have Angle viewer open. But its only 4 angles in the multicam clip on a brand new fully loaded iMac.. How are you able to run 14angles and I cant even get by running 4?!?

In my case, I had a Raid pushing the data to the MacPro I was working on. That makes a huge difference. But still. You should be able to work in proxy mode with 4 camera angles on a new iMac without any dropped frames.

Please put the [strike]Library[/strike] Cache! on the internal drive and see what happens. Your [strike]footage[/strike] cache and your library shouldn't be on the same drive.

"Your footage and your library shouldn't be on the same drive."

Where did you get this information, or is this a hold over from legacy FCP?

Oh, I wrote that two times. Stupid me. What I meant was of course the cache. I wanted to suggest to put the cache on another drive. Sure he can have a managed library.

Thanks Tom.

How do I move/store the cache on a different drive, and what exactly is the cache versus the library...?

To move your cache to a different folder click on your library and then there is there is an option to modify the storage settings in the “inspector” (cmd+4).

The Cache folder: All the render files, analyses files (e.g. optical flow) are in there. I've heard that it is good to keep it away from the Library but then again I've also heard its good to keep it away from your internal drive. The best place for it is an SSD. I don't want to confuse you. while I was searching for better phrasing I found some stuff online. You may want to hear it from an native speaker. Anyway it was just a suggestion to see if anything changes after you move the Cache folder.

I'm with Tom. The cache is so little data, used intermittently, moving it won't do much.

Im on my next project and Have everything on an SSD consolidated and right now am only lookinf at 3 different angles in my multicam editor. But EVERY time I show angles it drops frames.. How is this happening on this machine. I have done everything to streamline Final Cut Pro X and it cant handle a 3 angle multi cam clip!? the only thing I can think is each angle has some plug-ins on it but just about 4 each.

Well there you have it. Turn them off edit, turn them on again in the end.
But what about the other projects? Did you have filters on the angles too?

I can't edit a multicam clip with the angle viewer closed. That defeats the whole purpose of it. And the other project I was able to use 3 angles but I did not have as many filters on the angle. I Added one filter to this project its called PROSTAR from Pixel Film Studios . com

Why should you close the angle viewer?

But turn off the filters, you don't need them at this point.
When you are finished you can go fancy with filters and what not but at this stadium you should keep your Multicam as “light” as possible.

mgmartino wrote: ...only looking at 3 different angles in my multicam editor. But EVERY time I show angles it drops frames.. How is this happening on this machine...the only thing I can think is each angle has some plug-ins on it but just about 4 each.

As I said back in post 79975, no matter how fast the I/O, multicam playback requires processing those effects which can be very CPU or GPU intensive. The degree varies widely. Some effects or plugins like Neat Video take minutes to process 5 sec of video.

To diagnose where the problem lies, you could either turn off those effects and/or select the entire timeline via CTRL-A then render it with CTRL-R, then try the playback. If it plays back smoothly with a fully rendered timeline it is probably not an I/O issue but a CPU or GPU issue related to the effects or plugins you're using.

I always use proxy files when I am editing multicam content, even 1080p. That helps keep the timeline smoother and faster. But even proxy mode will not make highly compute-intensive plugins run with zero lag.

OH i see what you mean, I thought you meant turn off the angle viewer. I suppose I can turn off the filters. But part of me choosing the proper angles is seeing how they looking with the filters (how they show the shadows and highlights, especially my pro star filter effects all the light in the slip and some of the less direct angles look much better/different with it on) that helps me decide which angles are best. Turning them off will make me choose different and possibly not the best angle in the multi cam editing.

I heard the you should UNCHECK "create optimized media for multi cam clips" in FCPX preferences...Is this true or relevant when I have my Project set to Proxy mode?

joema wrote:

mgmartino wrote:
To diagnose where the problem lies, you could either turn off those effects and/or select the entire timeline via CTRL-A then render it with CTRL-R, then try the playback. If it plays back smoothly with a fully rendered timeline it is probably not an I/O issue but a CPU or GPU issue related to the effects or plugins you're using.

If I render the whole timeline how will I be able to test the multicam angle editor..Do you mean render each video clip that I am using to make up the multicam editor?

joema wrote:

mgmartino wrote: I always use proxy files when I am editing multicam content, even 1080p. That helps keep the timeline smoother and faster. But even proxy mode will not make highly compute-intensive plugins run with zero lag.

Is my machine not enough in terms of CPU?

i7 Quad-Core
4.0GHz
32GB RAM

If you're using proxy you don't need optimized. The GPU is of primary importance for graphics processing like effects. You can either render to help playback or live with the dropped frames, switching off stop on drop.

Have to add that Pixel Film Studios does not have a great reputation, though I don't know this effect.