10.2.3 Dropped Frames on many systems/set ups

New to this forum, so hello there. I am a pro editor based in Manchester. I have noticed across three different edit systems that FCP X 10.2.3 (and 10.2 and 2.1) drops frames. Apologies first off as I don't have the specs of the systems to hand. The three comps are all running El Capitan. Two of the computers are last years IMACS, 27 inch, fully loaded and also a Mac Pro Black Can D500 with masses of ram and running two NEC monitors and a BM breakout box going to a JVC grading monitor via HD SDI. The drop frames can be anything from a brief stutter right through to the picture sticking (but with sound playing okay). A quick tap of space bar to stop start gets rid. At first I thought it was a Blackmagic AV output issue but I can replicate it across the aforementioned Imacs on a totaly closed loop (no expernal outputs). Also I can find no pattern. It happens randomly. I have done everything. Background render off, better performance, app nap off, inspector closed, filters closed. Codec makes no difference, pro rez, transcoded, native canon codec even proxy. Yes even proxy. I usually run a pegasus raid via thunderbolt, no difference still get it, as I do with thunderbolt Gtech or Lacie drive. I have binned render files, copied projects, set up projects with cache and library on the raid, then on internal, then on seperate thunderbolt drive. Still get it. Bin preferences etc. No difference. As I said if I edit on the other two imacs still get the same dropped frames no matter what the drive, codec, set up is etc. I have been using FCP since number 3 and I am no noob, but either I am doing something wrong or it is a bug. Oh, I have also tried unplugging all other peripheries, drives, USBs, Thunderbolts, WIFI. No difference. It is an annoying quirk. I'd love to know other peoples experiences. I like FCP X but it is doing my head in.
Thanks ANDREW

Be interesting to note what Activity monitor is reporting whilst you are getting these issues. Just wondering if there are any apps or processes running that are sucking up resources.

In my experience FCPX always stutters/drop frames the first 1-3 seconds of playback. No matter the specs of the mac (I have a 6core mac pro with D700, a 2013 macbook pro and a 27" 5K imac) or the codec in timeline, or if the clips are rendered. The problem is just a little reduced if the inspector is closed (maybe because the app doesn't have to show in real time the clips parameters). Unfortunately this changed the way I work... I always put 3-5 seconds of black gap in the beginning of the timeline and if I have to review a cut i always play from few seconds before the range I want to see. Obviously if someone has a fix to this I would be really grateful, but I guess this is just a developer choice in order to reduce lag between the hit of the spacebar and the beginning of playback.

Yes, I will have a look at this, I do run a mean system...by that I mean I ensure there are no other apps etc running, but I shall see if there is something in the b/g

A

Thanks for the reply. Yes I get the impression by how the software works regardless of Mac and drives and codecs and library placement etc that there is something under the hood of the software that doesn't sit pretty with their own hardware. you know something is a miss when switching to proxy makes no odds. Which is the whole point. In fact I see no difference from transcoded or proxy or just sitting 5D Mark III footage in as the canon 264 codec.

You might also try testing on a new clean admin user running clips off the system drive, assuming it's SSD.

Just for reference, Mac Pro, 32 GB RAM, dual D700's, P2 16TB RAID 5, never any hesitation with playback, even with smallish 4K multicam. Do what Tom says, also verify how much RAM each has, and that all drives have at least 15% of total capacity left as free space.

Not knowing the specs on these Macs, we're just taking shots in the dark.

Thanks for will try system admin change, sure in past I have done this. My specs are MAC PRO LATE 2013, 3GHZ 8 CORE, 32 GB 1866 DDR3 EEC, AMD FIREPRO D500 3072 running 10.11.3 with 49 percent free on pegasus raid

Yeah, those D500 GPUs are not all that great. How large are these Project timelines you're loading up?

5-8 mins max

Wow, somethings up.

You could try these, in order, right off the bat to see what happens.
Delete all cache files, especially all Render files.
Run Disk Utility (I recommend this weekly) to repair all drives.
Run Disk Warrior (I recommend this monthly) to rebuild directories on all drives.

Not sure, but for timelines that small, seems you should have better performance. Third party plugins can cause playback performance issues, but you seem to have checked for that. HHHmmm...

Create a new user, log into that user, try things out.

ok thanks will do when I get a moment. I will action it.

May not be relevant:
We store our media on a network drive. We see the drive via a Thunderbolt bridge that runs on a Sonnet fiber conversion box. The fiber connects us to our corporate servers across town. A few months ago we started noticing glitches similar to what you are describing (but our situation and artifacts could be different, dunno). Trying to debug it took many weeks and lots of denials from our IT people that it was their issue. Turned out to be a combination of three things: service techs upgraded switches in our fiber pathway and failed to set them for the proper bandwidth because they didn't believe anyone needed that kind of speed (fixed that, no improvement); network settings (system prefs) on our Macs were being overridden by the Sonnet fiber device and we could not set the packet size properly (Network>advanced> hardware>MTU) and packets were being held up or dropped (still waiting for news from Sonnet on how to fix that); and, settings at the server had changed without anyone believing they could change by themselves (a software recovery or repair program had run on a script and reset several parameters). So, the only thing that we were able to change that has made any improvements was the settings at the servers themselves. I don't know what those setting were, that stuff is deep IT weirdness.

EditorAndy wrote: ...I have noticed across three different edit systems that FCP X 10.2.3 (and 10.2 and 2.1) drops frames....Two of the computers are last years IMACS, 27 inch, fully loaded...The drop frames can be anything from a brief stutter right through to the picture sticking (but with sound playing okay)....At first I thought it was a Blackmagic AV output issue but I can replicate it across the aforementioned Imacs on a totaly closed loop (no expernal outputs)...It happens randomly. I have done everything. Background render off, better performance, app nap off, inspector closed, filters closed. Codec makes no difference, pro rez, transcoded, native canon codec even proxy. Yes even proxy. I usually run a pegasus raid via thunderbolt, no difference still get it...I have also tried unplugging all other peripheries, drives, USBs, Thunderbolts, WIFI. No difference. It is an annoying quirk. I'd love to know other peoples experiences. I like FCP X but it is doing my head in...

I have done a lot of performance testing on FCPX and haven't seen this. In general FCPX on a top-spec 2015 iMac 27 is vastly faster than Premiere Pro CC on the same hardware. How much faster depends on how it's measured. In terms of viewer frame rate when fast forwarding on the timeline, it is about 20x faster.

That said, when fast forwarding on a H264 4k timeline, the playhead can be a little jerky. Using proxy or 1080p, it is fluidly fast and JKL is instantly responsive. By contrast with 4k on Premiere the playhead moves smoothly, but the program monitor lags by up to five seconds and JKL keyboard lag can be several seconds. So there are various ways to measure responsiveness, but in general FCPX is incredibly fast.

Since you observe a problem on multiple systems there must be something in common. You have already eliminated several possible areas. Do these systems have any common 3rd party software, such as BlackMagic drivers -- even if no hardware is currently connected? I see on other forums people complaining about stuttering playback if using Blackmagic Ultrastudio Express.

Do you have a disk clone from before this problem happened you could temporarily boot from and do testing there?

Add me to the "Dropped Frame Club".

I cut a lot of "board-o-matics" (storyboard reels) using simple B&W illustrated frames in sequence. I often find it takes a couple of plays for FCPX not to drop frames after I've made an edit change. The frames I'm cutting are 1920x1080 PNGs or JPEGs, so hardly enormous.

Even though there's no "red render required line" indicated above the timeline, I will routinely catch FCPX not being able to play out sequenced stills at speed without dropping frames. Once I've tried a couple of times of playback, the frames will eventually play. But often not the first time around.

I'm running a Dual 700, 8-core MacPro 2013 with 64gigs of RAM from a 6 disk Pegasus Thunderbolt RAID. SSD Bootdrive.

Isn't that beefy enough?

Is there a comprehensive in/out, write/read, seek test package available for troubleshooting the Pegasus?
I'm trying not to pretend I know much about this stuff; all I know is what we experienced. Our connection to remote servers, through Thunderbolt bridge via fiber, had several points along the way that caused us to drop frames and to have audio tracks simply cut out. There were at least two settings on the Mac that affected packet transfer.

I'm not familiar with the Pegasus but seems there must be software involved, either at the Mac headend or in the Pegasus box, that manages the RAID setup and its distribution of workload. Do they have a user support forum?

If you decide to chase it down, please let us know how you are getting along.

bogiesan wrote: Is there a comprehensive in/out, write/read, seek test package available for troubleshooting the Pegasus?...I'm not familiar with the Pegasus but seems there must be software involved, either at the Mac headend or in the Pegasus box, that manages the RAID setup and its distribution of workload...

As Tom already suggested, if the 2015 iMac 27 is an SSD model, an easy troubleshooting approach is just put the media on the internal SSD, using a new clean admin user. It does about 1500 MB/sec write, 1850 MB/sec read. That quickly rules in/out whether the external I/O system or user login-specific data is involved and possibly saves troubleshooting time.

If the problem does not happen then try it with the original user. If it still doesn't happen, that might indicate a problem specific to the external I/O system, at which point commencing troubleshooting of that might be beneficial. Yes Pegasus has a detailed log, Promise has good technical support, and there are various ways to pursue it, but I wouldn't suggest that as the first step.

Thanks for the feedback. I will digest it all and in some downtime look into it. At the moment I am using the Pro Tower and Pegasus, but I have seen the frame sticking and stuttering on Imacs running firewire and thunderbolt. Maybe a different issue with a similar outcome. I will put some footage on the internal drive and create a new user accoutn and see what happens. The current workflow suggests dropped frames due to read write. HOwever Davinci Resolve works flawlessly no stutter with at least 3 or 4 tracks of 2K.

I have found that it really doesn't make a difference (thunderbolt Pegasus RAID, external SSD, internal SSD). I get dropped frames on first couple of seconds in all instances. Because I'm using stills where it's really easy to tell if stuff is dropping, I think its just more noticeable.

The jpegs are 72dpi?