Affordable software DAM and FCPX camera masters.

Looking for an affordable DAM to use with FCPX and camera masters.
I've looked at Maign KeyFlow Pro and SquareBox CatDV and wondering if there are other options.
Problems I'm running into:

KeyFlow Pro
Can't see the contents FCPX Camera Archives which pretty much means every camera master going back to 2011 for me.
Additionally it can't read XDCAM EX or XAVC-L files last I checked. This is going back to 2008 for me. I feel I've been cursed by choosing Sony cameras.
While it can read AVCHD files it doesn't understand the metadata used to join longer clips.

CatDV
Can see the contents of FCPX Camera Archives so that's good.
Reading XDCAM EX or XAVC-L files Requires the Pro version and CalibratedQ Software MP4-EX reader.
Last I checked, it too can't join together longer AVCHD clips.

I'm wondering if I'm overlooking other options. It seems that FCPX (Camera Archives) and Sony XDCAM flavors are an extremely difficult combination.

My needs are fairly simple. I just want to keep track of all my camera masters, mostly XDCAM flavors back to 2008 and FCPX Camera Archives going back to 2011.

Hmm, I must be alone in these issues.
Is it that few are using FCPX Camera Archive function? Few have used Sony XDCAM variants?

CatDV is probably your best bet from what I've seen, but you can probably use most DAM solutions if you are ok with not necessarily cataloguing your raw media. That is, do it all from the ingested media. For example, you'll be cataloguing longer clips that have been joined and rewrapped already. You can still have the option of deleting the media for space reasons, and then bringing it back by reimporting.

Frustratingly, the $99 would be fine except for the fact that I've used XDCAM EX. To support that I have to pay $650 instead.

My needs are simple since I'm just a one person shop for the most part. I just need to track where the camera masters are and have thumbnails to sort through.

Ah, how we miss Final Cut Server so...

And the FCPX cataloging system won't do it?

Canto Cumulus is not affordable, unfortunately, but the demo version might give you a good benchmark against which to judge other DAMs. DAM for video is a niche market within the larger DAM market and it's highly specialized because of the need to handle all kinds of formats, serve up previews too all kinds of clients, manage poster frames, keywords, categories, tack usage, and have user friendly search functions.
I've been using Cumulus as an enterprise solution for twenty years and have studied the science of DAM for many years. My first question of anyone seeking to manage their assets with more sophistication than nested folder is not, "What do you want to spend?" but what they need to accomplish, what business problem are they trying to solve, what business opportunity they want to succeed.
DAM is complicated and the effort required to make a system work well is much larger than most people realize. And a cataloging product is actually quite different from a system that will actively manage assets.
I never had a chance to try FC Server and we do not use Cumulus to track our video assets because the additional video components are insanely expensive. Glad to talk with you about setting up a DAM project but the only product I know anything about is Cumulus.

cseeman wrote: Looking for an affordable DAM to use with FCPX and camera masters.
I've looked at Maign KeyFlow Pro and SquareBox CatDV...

I thoroughly tested CatDV a few years ago. It was a good product from a feature standpoint, available on both Windows and OS X, not too expensive.

However upon stress testing it proved unstable. That was on Windows, we had not switched to Macs yet. I had several interactions with CatDV support who finally admitted that's just how it was on Windows. Supposedly it was better on Mac. It may be much better today, but that's how it was then.

My main advice is whatever product you choose -- do not take on faith it will work at high stress and volume. Do not gradually start entering data only to find after you've spent much effort that the product won't hold up under the load.

Do tests with lots of data, various codecs, different frame sizes, etc. If the product supports multiuser concurrent access, then devise tests to stress that. Concurrent access is a notorious area for bugs on many products.

Whether single or multiuser, especially stress "asynchronous" user actions like cancel, abort, escape and abrupt network disconnects. Repeat this from many different areas of the UI during various activities. This is another common area for bugs. If it is a multiuser product repeat these concurrently from as many different client connections as you can manage.

With any DAM you are committing a lot of work to it and you want to ensure it can be trusted.

Unfortunately I have nothing to contribute to this conversation but am curious to hear what you guys discuss Greeting from Berlin Germany and a happy New Year. Paul.

I also tested CatDV (on Mac) a few years ago and it kept crashing on some but not other MPEG PS files I used for spot delivery. Odd thing is that it was only some files even though all were encoded with the same encoder and same settings.

Given how much media even a small shop can accumulate, I'm surprised this end of the market is so underserved. AFAIK these are the only two products that would appear to serve that market yet one can't even open FCPX camera archives and neither handle anything natively from professional Sony cameras. What a void to be filled!

The market for DAM products is stupid huge. There's an association of DAM vendors and developers. There are conventions and user groups. The video DAM is a highly specialized subset of this market. Here is a list of 10 things that allow a product to be called a digital asset management system. Anything that does not meet all ten of these criteria is nothing more than a catalog with some extra features. Serious DAM products are networked and multi-user because that's what the market wants. Most DAMs are available as single-user versions but the resources required to set them up and run them are about the same. Buying and setting up DAM are non-trivial commitments. Buying a catalog is easy since there are only two products that have been mentioned.


What are the Ten Core Characteristics of DAM?

The Ten Core Characteristics of Digital Asset Management (DAM) according to the DAM Foundation, and since “…ratified by the DAM Foundation Board in Q4 of 2014…” are as follows:
1. DAM systems ingest assets individually or in mass sets, and allow for the manipulation of those assets and their metadata individually or with mass actions. This is accomplished in part by assigning a unique identifier to each asset on ingest.
2. DAM systems secure the assets they contain. Security in a DAM extends to defining access control lists (ACLs) for assets and defining roles for users accessing the system.
3. DAM systems store assets as both binaries and metadata. A DAM system can store multiple file types, and allows for the customization of metadata fields and the metadata in those fields attached to the stored files.
4. DAM systems render/transform assets on ingest into new forms, such as thumbnails or proxy files. The new forms generated on asset ingest via transformation should all be stored as asset parts of the original file uploaded.
5. DAM systems enrich assets through the extension of metadata and metrics regarding the use and reuse of the asset throughout its lifecycle.
6. DAM systems relate assets by tracking the relationships between and among an original asset and versions/variants of the original. Versioning and version control tools are central to an asset’s life in a DAM system.
7. DAM systems regulate a structured process in the management, creation, and review of assets with workflow tools. Via programmed workflows, DAMs allow for a decentralized work force to collaborate together in a centralized system.
8. DAM systems allow for users to find assets and to retrieve those assets by facilitating search through metadata, collections, workflows, and access control tools. By increasing the discovery of assets that may not have been easily accessible before ingest, a DAM assists workers in leveraging existing content for maximum work potential.
9. DAM systems have a preview function that allows users to view assets before downloading or opening a file on their own device. By allowing users to take a look at assets in search quickly, without download, DAM systems reduce the amount of time users must spend in search.
10. DAM systems produce/publish content by providing methods whereby assets may be shared, linked to, or otherwise be distributed outside the system. This DAM function may be as simple as generating a URL on ingest or as complex as allowing users to build collections of items for sharing with a work group.

source:
DAM Foundation

BenB wrote: Ah, how we miss Final Cut Server so...

And the FCPX cataloging system won't do it?

No. It does not create a thumbnail view of offline camera archives.

Anybody had any luck finding a solution? Keyflow Pro looks pretty good, but I also have a particular need to create thumbnails and contact sheets of clips and projects, along with full-frame still exports and it'd be great to be able to do this all outside of the NLE (or fully within, I guess).

The little app "MovieIndex" does thumbnails OK, in a pretty basic fashion, but of course S-Log footage looks pretty dull in it.

I see Silverstack is at v5 now and it has a 14-day trial so I'm going to give it a go...
(later) and it does contact sheets (and other reports) pretty nicely. It also exports stills nicely, too. And it can apply a look/LUT. Wow! Except it costs $600 per year. Ouch.

I too have spent considerable amount of time finding a solution. Keyflow looks very promising but I have a hard time forking over $299 for it - especially to a new product with no track record of long term support. I understand this kind of software can be pricey and is usually not something amateurs videographers would purchase but it seems to me keyflow hits a market where if it was lower cost (like much much lower) it would be much more accepted by people like me.

My search continues!

Given the price of other DAMs I think KeyFlow Pro is OK. The entry level CatDV is only $99 last I checked. I like KFP's interface better.

They're going to be at NAB and have an announcement of new features with the release of version 1.5. Some of them very important for professional multi-editor use.

Alas it seems they'll still be missing a mission critical feature for me. Unlike CatDV, KFP can not see the contents of FCPX Camera Archives. I really can't fathom a Mac based DAM not supporting that. I'm a really an odd bird using Camera Archives.

BTW KFP is only available through the Mac App Store, has only 1 review (for a previous version) and it's the person who I believe will be presenting KFP in a workshop.

Yes, they do have to think about reaching the small shops using FCPX.

Noticed there's no links to the products in question.

KeyFlow Pro $299
www.keyflowpro.com

SquareBox CatDV. The Standard edition is $99
www.squarebox.com/product-matrix/

Hi, hi

For any one who is interested "KeyFlow Pro" their latest tweet says:

KeyFlow Pro ‏@keyflowpro 16h16 hours ago

Celebrating the Huge Update! 33% Off for a Limited Time. Only

Here is the link referring to there new features:

www.keyflowpro.com/help/whatsnew.html



Does any one in this thread have any thoughts about using a DAM to build an online searchable library?!?

If I am not mistaken this is somehow possible with CatDV

www.squarebox.com/typical-deployments-and-workflows/

I haven't played around with this yet, but for $200 bucks less than Keyflow there looks to be something similiar:

www.cinema5d.com/kyno-the-all-in-one-media-workflow-software/

Looks more like a production tool since it doesn't seem to have proxy storage. It just scans media you have online, it seems. in fact they mention in the FAQ that media asset management is not on the roadmap.

illicit1 wrote: I haven't played around with this yet, but for $200 bucks less than Keyflow there looks to be something similiar:

www.cinema5d.com/kyno-the-all-in-one-media-workflow-software/