SSD drive not that fast.

Hello,

I just installed an SSD drive as my main drive. I'm using El Capitan on an old Mac Pro. I was told it would be really fast.
Especially in opening programs. But Final Cut Pro X and Motion still take about 20 seconds or more to open.

Is that normal for an SSD drive? I thought it's supposed to be almost instantaneously.

Thanks.

SSD's are not "instantaneous" but are much faster than spinning platters, with the correct interface. And more thing effect overall performance than drive type. What size is this SSD, how much is free space? How much RAM in your MP? What drive are your projects and media on?

NealF wrote: ...Final Cut Pro X and Motion still take about 20 seconds or more to open....Is that normal for an SSD drive? I thought it's supposed to be almost instantaneously...

I don't think that is normal. On my 2013 iMac 27 with 3TB Fusion Drive it takes FCP X about 10 sec to boot and the timeline to stabilize. On my 2015 iMac 27 with 1TB SSD, it takes about 6 sec.

Your FCP X installation may be pulling resources or media from other places than the SSD -- like a rotating drive or even network. Also what kind of SSD interface is it? USB 2? USB 3? Firewire? Thunderbolt? The interface may be much slower than the SSD.

What if you temporarily close all libraries, create a single *managed* test library and put a little material in that. Does it still take 20 sec to start up?

You can use Activity Monitor or a 3rd party utility like iStat Menus to observe the disk I/O numbers during the FCP start sequence. On my two 32MB iMacs, FCP X reads about 300-500 megabytes during startup, as indicated by the Bytes Read column of Activity Monitor. However that is only the first time after OS X startup. Subsequent FCP X restarts report a much lower number, indicating the OS X filesystem cache is handling most of that.

You can also inspect your SSD's I/O performance with a tool like BlackMagic. That will help assess the SSD performance independent of FCP X. itunes.apple.com/us/app/blackmagic-disk-...st/id425264550?mt=12

The SSD drive is a 1 TB drive with 500 gb free. It's now my main drive.

I'm now wondering if the fact that my old main drive is a duplicate of the new one (haven't erased the system or apps yet) if this might be causing some problems.

Also, I read something a long time about about not having the old FCP 6 or 7 on your computer when you install the new one. I took a chance and left it just to see if I could still use it in Yosemite and El Capitan. It still opens in the new system, but maybe there's something I should have done to uninstall it first. Could it be that's causing the problem?

BTW, one second booting of the programs it is much faster to boot.

I'll do all the testing suggested.

Hi Neal
You don't state specifics about computer model, ssd or OS.
If you updated the OS and did not do a "Clean Install" this may also affect speeds. I always recommend fresh clean installs.

Making some assumptions, legacy MP, Migration Assistant?, fast ssd drive in SATA bay.

AFAIK all 1TB ssds are SATAIII(6GB/s)

First all legacy MP prior to nMP(cylinder) used SATAII (3Gb/s) and new ssd drives will saturate the bus. You will typically only get ~225-250MB/s from this bus not the full ~515MB/s you would see with a SATAIII 6GB/s ssd on a SATAIII bus.
Going back to an early MP, a spinning late model 7200rpm hdd with a large cache can move ~ 160-180MB/s so the actual difference between an ssd and a hdd is only around 40% faster.
Bottom line here is that you will never see the full speed of your ssd if installed in a SATA slot in an old MP. It is the SATA slot/bus that is the bottle neck.
The only way to realize the full potential of a SATAIII (6GB) ssd would be to install a PCIe card with SATAIII connection and install in a slot with enough PCIe lanes to handle the transfer speeds.
To add to the equation, early MPs have different PCIe versions(1 & 2) and each version basically doubled the transfer speed, so without knowing the model # of the MP, can't tell you which slot to install a PCIe card for your ssd.

The latest Macs actually use a Flash storage on PCIe 3 bus with even faster transfers, so you cannot compare 2 Macs like a new iMac or the nMP and an old MP. Newer Macs also have SATAIII buses.

Finally, make sure that "Spotlight" is done indexing all your drives including any external drives before testing speeds. Spotlight will make your computer run real slow until it finishes indexing all drives.

Legacy FCP 5.1.4-7 will work fine on all new OSs you just can't run legacy and FCPX at same time. You can install legacy FCP via making a disk image of FCP and installing from there. This by passes having to use MA and allows installation after a clean install.

Hope this helps, Greg

Wow. There's a lot more to this than I thought.

I believe I got the SATAII 3 g version. It was recommended to me from OWC where I bought it.
I did do a clean install of El Capitan and then migrated everything over (settings, apps and docs.)

Originally I was adding the SSD to the 4th slot since that was the only free one. But the Mac didn't see it. So I took out my original main drive from slot 1 and put that into slot 4. So the sad is now in slot one and it's working find.

I do see an improvement in speed, generally, when I open most programs. It was just the long lag time on FCP and Motion that surprised me. But I may have had too high an expectation considering the hardware and add model I've got.

Since I used Migration Assistant to move all the apps, I didn't have to reinstall FCP 6. Haven't really put it through the hoops yet but it does open the older files and seems to work so far. I'm only hanging on to that in case I need to export something I hadn't thought of.

My Mac Pro is an early 2009. 4,1 model. 16 gb ram and a 3gb vram graphics card.

Hi Neal
A few things…
Anytime you use MA it is not a clean install. MA while easy, brings all the crud and cruft of past lives with it, including old drivers and 3rd party junk that is just taking up space and may (or not) cause issues. It does not matter if you used MA during the initial set-up or later it is an all or nothing update.
The way to do a "clean install" is to set-up new drive installing the OS and then you have to drag and drop files, apps, etc… For apps you may have to re-install clean versions which is a good way to go as it will be the latest version in most cases.
You can also just leave in the old drive and when you need to use old files, just navigate to them. Some apps will run from non-boot drives, some won't, but files are always available.

Your MP should have seen the ssd in SATA slot 4 just fine. Each slot is technically the same. Maybe it just didn't connect fully on first try.

Your MP4.1 has (2) 16 lane PCIe slots and (4) PCIe 4 lane slots, so if you want the best performance from your ssd drive you could buy a PCI host card like this one from OWC and mount in any of the PCI slots and you will see ~ 2X speed increase while accessing the ssd … eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/SSDACL6G.S/

You do want to make sure your GPU is in the 16 lane slot.

MacTracker is a free app that gives data on every Mac made so a valuable resource for model info and for comparison of different Macs.

Some apps just take a long time to launch. I consider FCPX, Motion, any Photo app, MicroSoft and Adobe apps all as sloooow loaders. In the case of FCPX and Apple apps it is normally because it is loading the last project or your photo library. In the case of M$ and Adobe, it is lousy programming. YMMV

Hope this helps, Greg
Happy Editing!

Thanks.

I think I got some bum advice about Migration Assistant. I was going to clone the drive but was told MA was a better way to go. Sheesh!

Anyway, Thanks all for the info. This looks like a really good forum.

NealF wrote: Thanks.

I think I got some bum advice about Migration Assistant. I was going to clone the drive but was told MA was a better way to go. Sheesh!

Anyway, Thanks all for the info. This looks like a really good forum.

The question was not of MA versus cloning.
Neither way is the same as a clean install, as they are meant to restore the same situation you had before.

Hi Neal
Just reread where you state that your ssd is SATAII (3GB/s), if that is true then the PCI card will not improve your speeds. Since you don't state what make model the ssd is and no links, I can't confirm this. I may be wrong but I thought all 1TB ssds were SATAIII (6GB/s) drives, so I strongly suggest you check on OWC website. Won't matter if you are not planning on using a PCI host card. A SATA 6GB host will not make a SATA 3GB drive faster than using the slots in your MP.

Lichinho is correct is stating cloning will be a bit for bit copy of your old drive to the new one, NOT a clean install.
If you want a clean install you really have to start over, erase drive, install a new copy of the OS, re-install apps and then drag and drop any files you want on the new ssd, or leave them on the old hdd until you decide having them on the newer drive is needed due to speed issues.

Having said all this about MA, and being a strong believer in "Clean Installs"; for most people, MA does work, most of the time.
But really I can't tell you the number of times I have eliminated lots of issues by doing clean installs, and I also think that when updating/upgrading to a major OS change is a great time to do a "Spring Cleaning".
Here I am not talking about minor point updates like 10.10.3>10.10.4) but for OS changes like Mavericks to Yosemite (10.9>10.10 or 10.10>10.11). There is a reason that Apple designates major OS changes with different 10.X numbers and name changes, and it is because the underlying programming/frameworks has changed. This can lead to issues when using MA or cloning.
The more times you use MA to update the more garbage you hang onto. I know people who have been using MA from say Leopard(Snow) on and it makes it difficult to troubleshoot any problems.
I wish Apple would redo MA and provide better user control, but it is meant as a simple upgrade solution.

I also want to say that I am a strong supporter of the older MPs. You can really upgrade them and keep them mostly current and for the vast majority of folks, will be all you need. The greatest weakness is lack of ThunderBolt which will never be available. However, you can get a PCIe USB 3 card and that will give you faster external drive throughput. Much faster than the Firewire 800 the legacy MPs have. You also have the internal slots.

From a technical viewpoint, I think the current nMPs are crippled by the use of the xeon processors that are 3 gens old. This led to many compromises in the design. I recommend anyone thinking about moving from a legacy MP to a new MP cylinder wait for an update to new CPU processors. There are of course many, many others who will disagree.

Lots of websites that explain how to upgrade your MP. Here is one such site… create.pro/blog/
BareFeats has many comparisons between models and mods… barefeats.com

One last thought. As I stated, some apps are just slow launching and a better test is seeing how much faster your mac fires up from a shutdown and how quickly it can shut down. If you still have your old operating system on a hdd inside your MP, you can time the difference between drives. Time one, then using System Preferences, change the Startup disk and then shut down. Time the other drive. I think you will find the ssd faster. Again the bottle neck will be the SATA bus, but a ~40% difference is perceptible. There is also some savings in time from not having to wait for the drive to spin up.
Remember also if you are keeping your media on a second drive for FCPX, then the app has to move the data to restore the previous project.

Sorry for the verbiage, good luck.

Hope this helps, Greg

So if MA and Cloning will both bring over all the old crap, is there a way for a non-nerd to find it and delete it?

BTW, my OS itself was a clean install. Just the doc and apps (and all that invisible stuff) were brought over from MA>

Don't apologize for the verbiage. You've been very helpful. Thanks.

Oh, yeah. The Mac does start up faster and most of the programs are definitely faster, too.

Hi Neal
"Can a non-nerd find and delete old crap?" Short answer…NO!
Requires hours of research and the use of Terminal and the Remove (rm) command, this is dangerous for everyone including me.
This gets even more complicated by how many OSs you used MA on. Files get put all over the place and many of them are hidden files. So no, not easily.

Given where you are, if you do not experience any issues, then leave well enough alone.

If you find some real issues like lots of Kernel Panics where your Mac has "XXapp Quit Unexpectedly" or complete Mac freezes forcing you to hold down the power button, then you should consider a truly "clean install" as I stated before.

As I said, most people get along fine with MA.

I just don't like it and I maintain lots of Macs. Been bitten a couple of times using MA, and have to repair lots of problems with other peoples Macs. Doing a clean install almost always removes any issues.
The other thing is that Clean Installs have always resulted in much smaller data amounts taken up on the boot drive. Clean and lean is even more important when boot drives are small.

Dragging and dropping files from one disk to another also resets owner/permissions and leaves crap behind.
Do I really need to have the DVD player files that remember I only watched half that movie 2 years ago? That is how DVD Player remembers where to start re-playing a movie. Same with all the auto-save files etc… Just junk! MA & clones bring Junk over. Been using an app for years, do a clean install and you don't have 6 update versions on your drive.

When I used a MP, I would load a new OS onto a clean fresh hdd and then play with it while I continued to use an older working OS. When I felt that the new OS was stable, then I would migrate to using full time. I would just leave most stuff on the old drive and navigate over when I needed something. On occasion I would have 3 separate OSs in the slots.

Other tips are to keep your desktop clean/clear and don't store files, pics, videos there, this will slow down your computer. Put them away in folders like your Pictures, Movies, etc… Empty all your Trash Cans and downloads folder.
Archive your Mail. Do we really need 3-5years of Mail? There are many ways to keep our computers running lean and mean.

Hope this helps, Greg

How do you handle Mail when you do a clean install?

Tom Wolsky wrote: How do you handle Mail when you do a clean install?

Excellent question.

In the past, all I used to do was copy the ~/Library/Mail folder from a backup disk - or even from one mac to another - and get all my mailboxes perfectly arranged the same way they were.

I have not tried this with El Capitan, since I upgraded directly from Yosemite; I don't think I did this with Ypsemite, either.
I believe that since Yosemite the same may work, but you also need to bring along the Internet Accounts.
I have access to an iMac which I don't use for Mail. I will try this out and let you know.

Hi Tom
I have a series of steps that I do prior to switching over.
I have numerous Mail accounts including Gmail accounts.
I start by going to Google and archiving all old mail in the different accounts.
On the Mac within Mail I first sort by dates, then archive each section according to how much mail I have and then by certain categories like my business. Generally I store these on optical disks.
Then delete all the old mail I won't need on new system.
When I start using the new OS, Mail only gets populated with the Mail that is currently important. iCloud and Google handle this fairly well when you set-up Mail accounts, but you know about problems between Gmail and Mail.
I also have to do this for my wife's user's account.

The App Store is also very handy for re-downloading latest version of apps I want and a good time to eliminate the apps I don't.

Is that what you mean?
About to pull the trigger on El Capitan, I think.

Hope this helps, Greg

Not sure about the Mail restore process. I have some mail that goes back yeas that I still want to hold.

No guarantees, but I just copied my 12GB ~/Library/Mail folder, and my ~/Library/Accounts folder from my rMBP to my iMac, both running El Capitan.
After I placed them in the right location, all my mail was there intact.

NOTE: I *still* don't use any IMAP accounts. I am an old timer who likes to keep all his mail in his mac, irrespective of network access. Plus the horror stories about Gmail and IMAP give me pause (I do have a Gmail account using POP3 and it has kept working perfectly in EC)

Thanks Luis. I still have some POP accounts; some always seem to have trouble with Mail.

Actually I may have spoken a little too soon.
It appears that my POP account was transmogrified into an IMAP one...
Mail on the iMac started to download thousands of messages...

That's weird. Thanks.