Export for Protools

Apologies in advance if this has been covered, did a quick search and couldn't find anything, time is short and I'm anxious I start off the edit correctly on Sunday.

I have a simple standup comedy show to cut down. There are 3 sources: Vision Mixed Master and 2 ISOs. Also a multitrack audio session.

I imported the audio .wavs from a Pyramix session and assigned sub roles according to the track names, eg. Stick mic, 416L etc. There are 16 and I then made a synchronised clip together with the Vision Mixed Master. Then I made a multi group Clip of 3 angles containing the Synchronised clip and the 2 ISOs.

I want to edit monitoring the main audio on the Mixer feed as a guide.

The aim is to push all the audio through the edit so avoid a conform at the dub.

I have X2Pro Full version.

I am unsure as to what gets included on export, and don't have a copy of Protools to test the workflow.

It's such a simple edit that maybe a multitask QT would suffice, but how do I ensure that the separate audio files make it out of FCPX?

As far as I can see you have to put all the audio in the multi group somehow, as compounds and connections wouldn't allow you to cut without constant blading etc.

John

It sounds as if you should be using the multicam function rather than the sync function.

Hi Tom I am using multicam but one of the angles is a synchronised clip. I can't think of another way of getting 16 single track audios grouped together. Except maybe Sync'n Link which I don't have.

Not seeing the point of making the sync clip. Nothing wrong with using the blade all function to cut across detached tracks in a multicam edit.

Ok, but then we're back to an Avid type workflow and effectively tracks, but without the ability to trim simultaneously.

I could put all the multitrack legs, into a compound clip, so you only have one connection and blade that, but you'd have to manually edit the 16 tracks into it first Seems awful clunky. Then, how would you trim an edit with connections either side of the storyline cut? Really messy.

I did a test with a multitrack QT share, and the legs were absent, just a dialogue Role, but I'd expect them to turn up in the AAF, especially since I've allocated subroles.

Maybe if I pre-married the single audios (somehow) and made that new clip a 4th angle, copied the project at the end and enabled all the legs, before Export.

Legs? If you want separate tracks you Ned to assign roles. Detaching was only one way. I find multitrack blading very quick for trimming. Rather than detaching you can expand all the audio components

Or you can simply do the audio sweeting in Protools prior to doing the multicam edit.

Just send the multitrack wavs and the vision mix master to the ProTools guy. He cleans up the audio and he sends you a mixed master audio file. Then the only thing you need to do is create a multicam clip from the vision mix, the 2 ISO's and the mixed audio and you can easily edit your multicam cutting video-only onto the mixed master audio. This is by far the simplest workflow and this is the way most people do this.

If it is impossible for you to do it this way, you will indeed need to put your multitrack audio channels in a synched clip or in a multitrack audio file first, then create a multicam clip from all your assets and make sure to carefully assign the correct Roles and Subroles, then do you multicam edit, and then send to X2PRO or create a multitrack QT file based on Roles from the edited multicam. And from there you go to ProTools and back to FCP X. Much more work to do and IMO overly complicated for such a simple job.

- Ronny

Thanks Ronny, I can't see how you can dub something first before it's been edited. I'm only using 15 mins from an hour show. To balance the whole show, would be wasteful of time. Mind you if the show had been mixed well in the first place for the original transmission of the whole thing. I could probably have used the Final Mix. The dub will also sort out my joins tailout applause etc., -standard practice.

I could use an EDL, and conform, but for speed, passing all the audio through the edit is common for things I do, game shows, Ob Docs etc. Very few folk seem to conform audio from scratch these days. The beauty of FCP is that you can cut on the Primary and hide the myriad of tracks you would have in a traditional NLE.

So I think I'm on the right lines. Just get confused about what passes out at the end. One angle is a synched clip containing the Mixer out feed and (and it's audio) plus all the multitracks. I've assigned subroles to all the audio only legs.
I assume then I use the multicam to revision mix where necessary with vision only enabled, then cut out the bits I don't want, by cutting through the multicam on the Primary Storyline. I'll then have a bunch of cuts with all the audio inside.

Am I better to create a 4th angle inside the Multigroup that is only the multi-track audio?

On a multirack QT export can you get at the individual Roles then, or will I only see the upper level of the multi group, i.e. a dialogue Role?

Hi John,

I couldn't make up from your original post that you would be cutting down a 1 hour show to 15 minutes. In that case you are correct: it's better to edit the show first.

Yes, you are on the right lines.

I assume then I use the multicam to revision mix where necessary with vision only enabled, then cut out the bits I don't want, by cutting through the multicam on the Primary Storyline. I'll then have a bunch of cuts with all the audio inside.

That's correct. All the audio will be included in the multicam clips on the Primary, which makes it easy to trim down the multicam edit to your final show length.

Am I better to create a 4th angle inside the Multigroup that is only the multi-track audio?

You could, but that won't make much difference. The Roles you have assigned will be the tracks you export. Wether these Roles are all inside one angle or they are in different angles, doesn't have any influence on the track creation.

On a multirack QT export can you get at the individual Roles then, or will I only see the upper level of the multi group, i.e. a dialogue Role?

Yes, of course. You can get at all the Roles and the Sub Roles, no matter if they are part of a group or not. When you create your multitrack QT file based on Roles, you can assign every Role or Sub Role to an individual track.

- Ronny

Hi Ronny in my haste I hadn't added that this is a cutdown re-edit, sorry.

I think you've answered everything. I was worried that the tracks inside the groups would get lost, and I know X2Pro only includes the selected angle's audio, but If I do vision only cuts to repair using Angle A as audio, I think I should be fine.

One last question, is this the case whether the tracks are enabled or not, e.g., unticked, or by pressing V and swtiching them off?

in a sentence, I want to be able to cut with the original guide mix, but ensure that all the elements arrive at the Dub, for sweetening and repair.

Multirack QT might suffice, but now having upgraded X2Pro, I want to test the AAF workflow too.

Many thanks
J

Hi John,

If I do vision only cuts to repair using Angle A as audio, I think I should be fine.

Correct.

I just did a test and this is how I would set up the multicam:

1. Assign Roles to all your source clips.

- Your pre-cut vision mixer clip which has pre-cut video and mixed audio could be VIDEO + MIX
- Your 16 external audio clips should be labeled according to their sources (Stick Mic, 416L, ....)
- Your ISO clips can be left to VIDEO as you surely won't use the camera mics from the ISO's in the export

2. Create a synchronized clip from the vision mixer clip and the 16 external audio clips

3. Create a multicam clip from the synchronized clip and the 2 ISO clips

Now here's a little trick. As you want to cut the video of the vision mix with the ISO's while only listening to the mixed audio, you can temporarily disable the 16 external audio channels in the multiclip. Open the multiclip in the Angle Editor, select the synchronized clip and in the Inspector > Audio tab de-select the Connected audio channel.

Now drop your multiclip on the timeline, put your playhead at the start of the timeline and in the Angle Viewer select Video+Audio. Then select the vision mix angle, select Video Only and start cutting away. When you cut the vision mix with the ISO's you will now only hear the audio mix and not the 16 external channels.

4. When the multicam has been edited and trimmed, select the multiclip in the Browser and open it in the Angle Editor. Select the Synchronized vision mix angle and in the Inspector > Audio tab activate the Connected audio channel again to re-activate the 16 external audio channels.

5. Now you can export an XML for X2PRO, or you can export a multitrack QuickTime movie. In the export settings you will be able to assign every audio Role to a discrete track, including the 16 external audio channels.

- Ronny

I've not done X2Pro with multicam Curious how the CML treats the audio clips. Though when you cut vision only in the multicam project, in reality the audio is cut as well. Does this give ProTools a separate audio clip at each vision cut?

Thanks as always for sharing your knowledge.

You are correct, Tom. Even when you cut Video Only, the audio in the FCP X timeline contains through-edits with each multicam clip.

However, when you export the cut up multicam as a multitrack QT based on Roles, the audio Roles get exported as discrete continuous tracks. When you create an AAF via X2PRO, this will also extract the cut up audio channels and export them as discrete continuous tracks to be included in the AAF. ProTools will get a single audio track for each Role.

- Ronny

Good to know X2Pro fixes this problem.

Just doing a quick test and I don't see the Roles in the drop list for multitrack export. I suspect this is because they are inside a synchronised clip which in turn is inside the multi group. If I pop the synchronised clip directly onto the timeline then they are there. I've ensured that they are ticked as on, and disabled the Main audio. Any ideas how to get round this?

Ah ha, think it was because I made the synchronised clip initially before assigning the Roles. Good tip to have the timeline show Roles, and I can now see them in a big long list. Think this should work now!

Just a quick update so say that the edit was a great success and the audio arrived safely in Protools.

There were a couple of issues:

I ended up with 64 tracks in the Protools session to start with. This was because when I wanted to use a non-sync cut away or move a shot out of sync, I had Alt dragged the clip to copy it and become a Connection and just muted the audio, but this audio presented all the tracks in The Role driven export. Any audio overlaps cause a checker boarding in Protools tool. So being able to put audio only dissolves on would be handy to avoid this.

In general I think you often want to detach vision not audio. I don't want the sync audio, in this case to be a connection, as it belongs in the Storyline. It's a limitation of the "all in one container" system. Love to hear any thoughts on how to get round this, as it's quite fundamental. I could "reveal in browser" and connect vision only above. Although would be great if you could "double match frame to get back to the original clip, rather than the multi group.

I also found that the Timeline index after a while stopped displaying all the Roles. Bug? Frustrating as many of the multitrack audios were redundant and I just wanted to disable them, so that they didn't get exported in the AAF.

Learnt a lot and many thanks again all for your excellent advice. John