Helping thoses less fortunate

If this gets me booted off this forum, no real loss.

What is going on is kicking someone when they are on the ground injured. A not so subtle form of bullying. I have had enough. I have tried to explain my situation and look everyone here is unique, we all come to FCPX and editing through many different paths.

The point is, we should be helping with getting work to each other, instead of hitting and kicking and making stupid comments about demo reels. I have stated my view on demo reels, why they are a really stupid tired useless gauge of skill. It shows no talent or skill, the only skill it proves is having the skill to edit show/demo reels and who wants a demo reel editor??

I am not a show/demo reel editor, I am a highly skilled tv news video editor with over 12 years hard news editing under my belt, and dammit that has to mean something. I have a disability that prevents me from having a career as a videographer/ news cameraman. I had to make a career decision and I chose live tv news production/post production, being studio/desk bound.

A few bad things happened, I changed genders in a horribly transphobic/homophobic country, this cost me my caeer, I still made something of myself. Yet all I get is comments about "if you do not have a show/demo reel, youa re in the wrong line of work.." What nonsens is that...

I do not have the first or last idea about how to get pout of this mess, all I know is that every day watch video after video, I don't have anything to edit, and I am dying inside, 2 reasons for this, a total lack of personal belief in my skills, and I have no idea about how to find work...It sucks having no demo reel/no degree, yeah I regret daily failing my dimploma course in 1997, and changing genders in 2009.

What I do not regret is learning FCP X, I see it for what it is, a game changer. I see the power of it's potential, and I will defend the ability of FCP X.

I would love to have an educated based on experience conversation about LUTS, codecs, write blogs about how to from actual working experience. I have no idea what a RAID is, other than it is a term used in war, how to set up servers, shot notes, logging, whatever..

All I have is what is in my life experience, I live in the port city of Durban, on the east coast of South Africa, a city that has almost no real production, 2 tiny news rooms, and not much else, I live here as I have a part time career that pays the bills, and it sucks, I know that I am so so much more than what I am here.

All I need is a chance to shine, I am a highly skilled, make that gifted tv news video editor, I have ero experience of any other form of editing, I chose the only open gig I could find, and I loved it, I loved the rush of editing to deadline in 4 or 5 languages, all of which are the lead in the bulletin, of having to make snap decisions about the vlaue of each and every shot, doing ghost voicer, when I have only 2 tracks of audio, [insert swear word] I miss it...

I'm replying because I also live in Africa, have previously worked in News Production as a VT editor, and I have also worked in the past with South African companies. While there might only be a few terrestrial (?) broadcasters down there, there are a huge number of small production companies producing content for the various (and numerous) DSTV channels, as well as producing content for a large number of foreign companies. Believe me, most of the rest of Africa considers South Africa to be the mecca of video production on the the continent. Thats not even mentioning the film industry, where again South Africa leads in terms of foreign productions filming there due to the level of expertise available, and good tax breaks. Here in Uganda there is a famous story called 'The Queen of Katwe' which went into production recently; though the director came to Uganda and tried to get it done here, in the end the production moved to South Africa due to the above factors. Thats is true for so many African stories (the 'Ghost and the Darkness' set in Kenya, filmed in SA, 'Machine Gun Preacher' set in Uganda and Sudan, filmed in Southern Africa) etc. On an on it goes. So I do not believe that SA is a one horse town.

When you say people tell you to get a showreel who do you mean; prospective employers? In that case build a showreel, there is no other choice if you wish to be employed. If you can't use your previous work (and I understand that because I also used to work in News Production), then build a new showreel from scratch. How? Do work for free. There are lots of Music videos being shot, or small online documentaries out there that you could lend a hand with, surely? I know lots of 1 man production companies (where you have a guy doing music videos and essentially doing all the work from production to post by himself) here that would love to hand off the editing to someone else for free, because the editing is a real bottleneck for these guys. Similar companies must exist down there, and that would get the ball rolling at least.

[quote="MsJustine" post=66157

The point is, we should be helping with getting work to each other, instead of hitting and kicking and making stupid comments about demo reels. I have stated my view on demo reels, why they are a really stupid tired useless gauge of skill. It shows no talent or skill, the only skill it proves is having the skill to edit show/demo reels and who wants a demo reel editor??
[/quote]

I say this with good intention; but you really have this mixed up.

Say for an example that I make a showreel that includes a scene from a music video, a scene from a commercial, a scene from a corporate, a scene from a documentary and a scene from an online webisode.

This does not make me a showreel editor.

This proves to any potential employers that I can edit music videos, commercials, corporate videos, documentaries, and webisodes. Its my CV. Its my brochure. My calling card. It proves I can do something by actually showing it.

Looking back though some of your other posts here I see that this has been a recurring theme - you're looking for work and looking for advice on how to get it.

The answer is repeatedly to make a showreel, but you don't like this answer, because you feel it is "stupid", you think that it does not prove skill, it does not prove experience. You think it only proves that you can edit a demo reel. You're wrong; I'm sorry but you are.

Anything is better than nothing, really. Even if you just bought some stock video footage from Pond5 or Videoblocks and edited something together as a showreel, then at least you are able to prove that you can edit. So what if its a showreel? You can make your showreel to suit any style you want.

You say "We should be helping with getting work for each other". But people have been trying to help. You're just not listening to the reply.

And now; I have to get back to work.

I have to edit a music video by a Congolese singer, as well as a short documentary about moonshine made from bananas, and a long webisode about riders entering the African Motocross Championships. I have handed over a corporate edit to a friend, and turned down 2 other documentaries.

I've got so many editing projects backed up that I am turning away new ones. And yes many of theses projects are referrals based on jobs I completed earlier.

All. Thanks. To. My. Showreel.

Hi Simon

No it proves you can edit a demo reel, it does not prove you did the actual work yourself. The demo reel is a string of images that can be faked.

I once many years ago applied for a job at a local tiny ad agency, I asked if I needed to supply a demo reel, and they replied, NO NO NO we do not want to see a demo reel. At the interview I asked why no demo reel, the reply.."How do we know you edited the work?"

They set up a series of tasks to perform, a on the job test of my skills, so they could assess my for my ability at the place of work, and I was lacking. I have made up for this lack many times over.

I believe in what they said about demo reels, if you have one, it only proves you can edit demo reels, and nothing more, if you think it shows more, explain how it shows more than a talent to edit show/demo reels?

For legal reasons I have no access to any of the work I have edited, that is policy of the national broadcaster here.

I just read your last comment, all thanks to your show reel??? Ummm that I do not believe is true, and for the list of work you are doing, again how do I believe a word of it???

MsJustine wrote: Hi Simon

No it proves you can edit a demo reel, it does not prove you did the actual work yourself. The demo reel is a string of images that can be faked.

I once many years ago applied for a job at a local tiny ad agency, I asked if I needed to supply a demo reel, and they replied, NO NO NO we do not want to see a demo reel. At the interview I asked why no demo reel, the reply.."How do we know you edited the work?"

They set up a series of tasks to perform, a on the job test of my skills, so they could assess my for my ability at the place of work, and I was lacking. I have made up for this lack many times over.

I believe in what they said about demo reels, if you have one, it only proves you can edit demo reels, and nothing more, if you think it shows more, explain how it shows more than a talent to edit show/demo reels?

For legal reasons I have no access to any of the work I have edited, that is policy of the national broadcaster here.

I just read your last comment, all thanks to your show reel??? Ummm that I do not believe is true, and for the list of work you are doing, again how do I believe a word of it???

Well, the times have changed. I have never had to 'prove' I can use a piece of software in an interview. The work usually speaks for itself.

I have copies of all the films I have edited, with the credits. I can't put them online, but I can do a private screening if anyone ever questioned my honesty.

But this has never happened, not once. I guess character and presentation plays a role in this during the interview? If people are questioning your honesty then there may be bigger issues at play here.

And no, you can't trust anything on the internet I guess. So why are you asking for help if thats the case?

My vimeo channel is here:
vimeo.com/simonpwood/videos

Mainly personal stuff, but a few NGO and corporate things too. What does this prove? Only that I am able to edit different styles. Most of my commercial stuff is not allowed to be there, and my showreel (because it includes the commercial stuff).

But seriously; you are basing you distrust of showreels on one interview where you didn't get the job? If your current strategy for employment is not working out for you then surely its time to try a new tack?

You know how to edit, so edit something together as proof of that talent for goodness sake!

If you ask a question, and don't like the answer, don't attack the person/group asked, but look inside yourself for the reason it angers you so much. Don't attack us for giving you legitimate industry advice. My responding to the same old, tired row is over. I do tons to help the less fortunate, you've no idea what I and my family and my business have done. But to be attacked when I give legitimate advice, only when asked, that's just disrespectful and cruel on the questioner's part, who them becomes the bully themselves.

This is just becoming a silly self-serving endless loop of "woe is me," that quickly becomes tiring.

MsJustine ... quite simply, you are only as "less fortunate" as you allow yourself to be.

Some folks look at limitations as something to become a victim of while others see those same obstacles as a challenge they are willing to bust their butt to overcome.

There are truly countless human beings on this planet that face what many folks would consider insurmountable issues ... yet we constantly see stories of how these individuals who were dealt a bad hand, simply refuse to accept victim status and not only prevail over these obstacles, in many cases they excel beyond their dreams by great measure. One only needs to visit YouTube or Vimeo to see thousands upon thousands of fabulous examples of people that have overcome obstacles to achieve success ...

There are several simple and easy solutions to your situation.

1. Stop considering yourself as a victim or "less fortunate" ... If you are truly a gifted editor, let those talents shine through. Stop placing self-imposed limitations on yourself. Yes, in many areas, past employers will not allow past works to be presented outside their purview under Work for Hire conditions ... that doesn't mean you are incapable of, or it is impossible to create a demo or portfolio reel to share with a potential client or employer if you really wish to do so.

2. Stop blaming folks on an internet discussion forum for your problems. It's a waste of your time and effort when you have better things to do that could add real value to your life and livelihood.

3. If the rest of the industry places a high value on a demo reel ... is refusing to create one or listing infinite excuses as to why you can't make one in your best interest? Does this self-imposed limitation advance your status with a potential employer or remove you from consideration? Regardless of your personal preference for utilizing demo reels. It's wonderful to experience the freedom of marching to your own drum beat ... but if you are out of step with the bulk of the industry ... who is imposing the limitation?

3. If you are indeed "less fortunate" ... how about trying this: Team up with someone who is in a similar situation. There surely must be an individual or charitable group in your locale that could benefit from your talents. Agree to barter with someone aspiring to be a videographer to shoot video clips/stories/projects for you, then in return you edit those clips into a final deliverable project. You could offer to produce a promotional video or documentary for a local charity ... you both benefit and everyone has a product to show prospective clients or employers. It would only cost you your time and effort.

There are solutions to your situation ... though YOU and only YOU can actually implement those solutions. Yes, they may be difficult. They may take you more time and effort to achieve your goal ... but is pissing and moaning about perceived "bullying" on the internet advancing your cause? Or is some creative and persistent effort a better choice for your time?

I am highlighting a valid issue within the industry, that is getting work. One way of proving yourself is to show a catalog of work called a show reel or demo reel. Whilst this is fine and well it does not work in very aspect of editing.

I happen to work or have worked in television news, which has it's issues in regards ownership of media. If I worked for a large production house say Warner Brothers or Disney I am sure they would not be pleased to have you take copy of their material home.

So what do we do? We can suggest doing private work, this is a slow process to build up work and might not be suitable to highlight a talent you as an editor may have. I have a particular talent as a television news video editor.

After having had a very long thought, I realized that maybe we need to look at this differently, show reel/demo reels are useful as a sales tool for clients, those that hire us to edit video, but what about business to business crew to crew? Is the show reel the most effective tool for the job?

I feel it is well it worked in the past, so it must work in the future way of thinking, and well that is stupid, what worked in the past clearly does not work int he future, if that was true, then we would all be editing bleach bypass film stock on hand cranked cameras, and well I have not seen a hand cranked camera for a very long time.

A level of trust has to exist, and is the show reel the most reliable gauge of skill, not by a long shot, it is an outdated method of judging skills, sure it shows pretty pictures, it is the very same as dressing smart for the interview for a job, getting the job, then starting day one wearing normal non fancy clothes...

A show reel/demo reel is a way to show off, but it is just that a show off, it does not in any way tell the real story, you might have spent 300 hours putting the show reel/demo reel together, but how fast are you in making snap decisions, making tough decision.

What do you show in this reel? Only the best efforts, and that is well a lie in of itself.. It is an edited version, it shows only a very limited skill.

It does not show the boss you want to impress how you did an effect, or how you made that decision, the only accurate way to gauge current skills is with asking the employee ie me as example to edit something to a deadline, judge me on how well I edited to the brief, to time and to detail. Was I efficient in the best use of technology, my understanding of work flow.

I say show reel/demo reels are only useful to a limited degree, how do we make allowance for those that for commercial reasons are not able to retain copy of previous editing?

I think in this thread people haver attempted to show you some ways that you could attempt to build up enough work to use as a showreel (or just use the work itself and the recommendation of the people that you did it for as proof of your ability).

I recommended that you get in touch with some small one-man-band companies to do some work to build up some real world experience (outside of news editing). ButchM recommended teaming up with other people that are in a similar situation.

Look, I get what you're saying. I also did VT editing for a news program when I started out editing, and like you I don't have access to that work. And yes, News Editing is very specialised and requires editors to work on extremely tight deadlines and assemble stories in a matter of minutes. I found that that particular skill was of no worth to me when I left the TV station, because most other editing jobs don't need that kind of speed.

And yes, showreels are less than perfect. But they are just a means to get the ball rolling. To get your foot in the door. Once you build up a number of projects the recommendations and word of mouth from your Producers & Directors will be worth more than the showreel.

So you're in a Catch 22 situation. You have experience of news editing that is really only of value to an employer that requires a news editor. You have no proof of your experience (other than a letter from your previous employer I guess).

You are unwilling to put the time into build up a showreel, and you consider it a waste of time anyway.

So explain to me how it is that you think you will be able to get a gig editing in the future? How will your potential employer be able to judge your skill set?

On my last point; how will your employer be able to judge your skill set. Yes I see that you have an idea of a perfect case scenario where you are brought into a editing room and have to perform a set of tasks to show your skills. Its a nice idea, I like it, but I think its also highly unlikely in this day and age.

Many jobs these days are hired over the internet. I have had a number recently where I never met the person I was doing the work for (we communicated through Skype and I uploaded password protected edits every day to vimeo for her to look over and discuss the following day).

Even in face to face interviews i very much doubt that the interviewer is going to have the time or inclination to have every single potential person sit down and perform tasks.

The solution is right in your reply, vimeo password protected access as an example.

As you point out, we have skype, facetime, so being in the same city/country is no longer an issue. We have the tools and more importantly the internet speeds to say for example have someone 8-10 hours ahead, do the editing whilst the local crew in the USA sleeps, my day is your night...Hence my request to move VUG to 10am not 2pm...

How do you judge any video work, by the end product, look what I am suggesting is a new way to look at how work is spread, why not try and embrace my idea instead of saying there is only 1 way....If that was the way we all thought, we would be running around in skins, no we would not be in skins, we would be before skins, no fire, no tools, per-neaandhathal!!!!

What worked last year was tossed and new ways of doing, we have moved from dial up to 100MB/s and faster in less than 20 years...Time to change the way work is done...

Here is a thought...life is a risk, take a risk, I dare you to try my skills...you game...I am!!!!

MsJustine wrote:
I say show reel/demo reels are only useful to a limited degree, how do we make allowance for those that for commercial reasons are not able to retain copy of previous editing?

A perfectly valid and understandable view. However ... has that view been useful in your efforts to secure gainful employment?

You are totally ignoring my previous comment of marching to the beat of your own drum ... you may not be wrong in your assessment of the worthiness of a demo reel ... if prospective employers are not going to consider you a possible candidate for job due to the absence of a demo reel, is your continued mindset going to enhance your opportunities? Should you remain so steadfast in your views on the matter and remain unemployed? Is that attitude furthering your cause?

Once again, you are suffering from a self-imposed limitation that is directly hindering your efforts (or lack thereof) to achieve your desired goal. Instead of sharing 10 paragraphs on further explaining your views on demo reels … you could have been setting the foundation to create one to get your foot in the door so you can have the opportunity to prove your worth.

Sooner or later, one must realize that beating a dead horse is never going to get him to win the race.

MsJustine, I think we all hear what you are saying and understand what you are talking about.

However, here we are all editors of one sort or another, not the actual employers. We just get the gigs and do the work, but we are not actually employing editors ourselves.

Its generally not for the employee to dictate to the employer how they ought to be conducting their interviews or on what basis they should be testing potential recruits.

Is the system outdated: probably.
Is it totally fair to everyone: probably not.
Is there room for improvement: sure why not.
Is it tried and tested, and does it work: yes.

If I were to apply for a regular job in any industry, say for example in a bank, well then I would have to apply for the interview through the normal way. For example I would have to: Submit a CV for consideration. Based on that I might get called in for the interview. If they like my personality they might shortlist me for a second interview, and from there I might get the job, or not and might get my CV pooled in their file for future reference.

Thats the basic plan for getting the job. If i were to try to rage against the system and tell the bank to change the way they employ people, and start by not accepting CV's from anyone, well, I might have a point, but I sure as heck won't get the job. Some other guy who followed the procedure would get the job, and I'd be stuck out on the street with my principles.

Well ButchM summed it up much better than I could. Just reread his posts.

Your self-imposed limitation is all well in theory; but in practice you're out on the street with your principles, while the other guy is editing a gig....

Anyway, I get it. You don't want to do a showreel, and you won't listen to any advice on how to get one started. Fine. I do hope it works out for you.

I am an employer, I give my two cents, and was told I was wrong. That shows so much about someone.

addendum:
… When someone considers him- or herself importance, we phrase it here
"The World turns around your belly button" - any parent with kids in puberty has this live&in living colors at home LOL

So, does the world turns around you?
No, surprisingly not.
… perhaps around Chuck Norris' belly button, have to check that....

And I'm still investigating, what all this 'therapy talk' has to do with FCPX (title of this segment of fcp.co) ... that is a deep forward pass to 'OFF-topic'

<officers voice> ... "nothing to see here people, keep going" :lol:

You know, I usually just roll my eyes and ignore you (Ms Justine) when you are active on a thread I'm reading. I used to think you were a troll, but it is clear that you are someone who is having a hard time and (for whatever reason) is unable to communicate in a non-confrontational way. You also seem to feel persecuted (unduly insofar as your activity on this forum is concerned, in my experience).

As someone who both (occasionally) hires editors, and is hired to edit by others, I will tell you what (in my experience) happens. I would also say that, I have worked full time at a few small production companies, and witnessed how they did their hiring.

When hiring someone (this goes for me, my friends who hire editors, and what I have witnessed first hand at other companies), the factors involved in getting an interview, in order of importance are:

1. If we have used you before. (no interview necessary)
2. You have been recommended by a colleague I have worked with.
3. You link to work samples that are good and relevant to the job.
4. You have a good reel.

This may seem like it proves your point that reels are unimportant, but really the opposite is true. It is #4 on a list of important factors. There are no unimportant factors on the list. You will not find knowledge of a particular piece of software on there. You will not see a test on there (I actually was asked to do a sample once when first starting out, but refused. I wasn't going to work free for some Micky Mouse wedding video joint. Maybe I would have done it for a real production company, but then I doubt they would ask). You know how I give people a test? I hire them (after they come to me via one of the methods listed above) and pay them to work for a couple of days. If they pass the "test", then I ask them to keep coming back. If they "fail", I tell them that they aren't what we are looking for, and ask them not to return.

I can trace 75% of all jobs I have done to the first PA job I ever had, like 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon. My gig right now is four steps removed. Personal recommendations are key for finding work. Often when first starting out, experience isn't the deciding factor. It often comes down to people saying, "So-and-so is a good person and works hard. He/she is smart and really killed it as a PA. I heard you need an assistant editor, give him/her a shot."

My advice is:

Find stuff to work on for free. It will hone your skills (and probably cheer you up).

Move to where the work is, get an internship or PA job on a big production, and tell every single person you meet that you are an editor. (I know this sounds easier than it is. The industry is super unfairly slanted towards only giving opportunities through nepotism and to the children of the upper-class who can afford to work for free. At least, that is the case in the USA. But no amount of complaining can change that in the moment, so the only options are to give up, or find a way around it).

Make a reel. It is number 4 on my list, but since you don't have 1-3 it is your best short term option. The preceding recommended steps are in service of gaining numbers 1-3.

I would also recommend that you put less stock in your previous experience as a news editor. I'm not diminishing it, but for all the reasons you have listed, it is irrelevant to your efforts to restart your career. By all means, put it on your CV and draw on the experience while working, but the last thing that will inspire someone to hire you or even collaborate with you, is by starting your relationship with a long tale of woe. As you have said, there is no way to know what is true... starting with that story. I'm not saying it is untrue, but which looks more true: a good reel or an unsubstantiated story of your great skill and experience followed by a terrible downfall that lead directly to you not having a reel?

That is my 2¢ (and everyone else's as well from what I have read).

btw - Check out this guy:

watch.wakaliwood.com

Actually, everyone check him out. He is my biggest inspiration right now. He lives in a small village in Uganda and started making his own films with old, out-of-date equipment and computers built from spare parts. The results are amazing.

This thread reminded me that I need to get my showreel done.

Yeah hate reels myself and have definitely made things unnecessarily difficult for myself for way too long. It is not Black & White either. Like hell I might just upload a sample of my work to Vimeo this week. Would be a step in the right direction.

My reasoning being that it is neither fair nor professional to assume that other people have a fifth sense and just know how amazing I am :woohoo:

Ok, time for me to chime in.

I think MsJustine you have had a few great replies to your post - great advice.

I don't think you will get any better info if you were to post similar questions again, so please keep further interactions focused on FCPX and editing.

Peter