your opinions on the need for 2 panes up trimming (from the keyboard!!)

I teach editing at the university level where students are editing narrative scripted stories. Although the school is Avid-centric, I have been trying to open the door to a satellite course where there might be one section of students working with FCPX in an iMac lab.

And this brings me to one longstanding feature request for FCPX -- one that that my students use a lot in "match action" cutting with AVID, but it's hard to find an equivalent keyboard trimming mode in FCPX.

Right now in FCPX you only get 2 panes up trimming when you are dragging with the mouse in the timeline. If you try to revert to the keyboard, you lose the 2 panes display and only see one side of the cut. The reason that this is important is because seeing the last frame of the outgoing shot and the first frame of the incoming shot simultaneously can help you do a "match action" edit very quickly. And yes, you can do it by dragging the mouse in the timeline, but cutting is much more precise and controlled if you can do it through the keyboard -- a frame at a time using the nudge keys.

Amid all the buzz of all the newly released FCPX features, I tend to think that my feature request to Apple (that I wrote last Summer) has probably been read -- but maybe not many users wanted it -- and perhaps if it's on their list at all, maybe near the bottom. And because I have not recently seen this on the forums discussed as a much needed feature, I'm wondering if I'm pretty much out there relatively alone on this one.

I wanted to get just a quick sampling of what other FCPX users felt about this missing feature. Perhaps I'm from the older school of narrative editing and this feature is deemed not such a big deal by a newer generation of editors. Of course, it's also about the" kind" of editing one does. If there's not a lot of "matching action" on your projects, this feature request probably isn't that much of a priority.

But it does remain important to me and to the younger students I've been teaching....the ability to see both outgoing and incoming frames while trimming "from the keyboard." And on the fly (within those two panes) to select what side of the cut you want to work on.

If the response on this is lukewarm as a desired feature, that probably tells me I'll have one helluva long wait to see it implemented. I was also debating whether it would be appropriate to send in another feedback form to Apple or not.

Many thanks to anyone who cares to share their opinion on this. And it would be encouraging to see if there is additional support out there from other users.

It definitely is a feature that I have been hoping would come to fcp x.

I'd like to see this feature too, even though I don't do a lot of narrative work. I use the keyboard shortcuts all the time to trim edits, and having the option of a two-up window would surely be useful. Especially since they already have the feature via mouse-click, it doesn't seem like a stretch to just enable keyboard use.

Would we have to go into a trim mode to do that?

This is badly needed and i filed that request more than once!

I'm on the edge abut this one.

I used it a lot in Avid and FCP. But now I have gotten used to trimming with the mouse when I need the two-up I really don't see any advantage in one over the other. The two methods are very precise and fast, and today I would even favor trimming with the mouse over trimming with keyboard shortcuts because is feels more tactile.

But yes, submit more requests for this feature and I'm sure if enough people want it it will come. I don't need it anymore but I'm sure others will find this a good addition to the already existing workflow.

- Ronny

yes, both trimming ways are fine, but visual trimming feedback should be the same: 2 up display!

We agree on that one. So hit the Feedback page as much as you can with this request. This is the ONLY way to get it done.

- Ronny

Is this something you're going to have to activate and then close when you're finished?

Possibilities:
- If I highlight an edit point, I should automatically get the two up display.
- Or, in the Viewer settings menu, have a two up display option I can check/uncheck on/off.
Super simple!

Feedback page time!

Yes, I do really wish we had a two up display with keyboard trimming. I never tough my most to trim, simply not frame accurate, and I do some fight scenes and other action scenes now and then, that a two up display i mandatory for.

I really don't want that. Every time I select an edit I lose full viewer display and can only play one edit? Lose a quarter of your interface when this happens? Before you know it the interface will have modes. Think we need to be careful of weighing the benefit against the cost. I'm with Ronny, but certainly use feedback and maybe a good way can be found to do it.

I'm sorry, but my mouse/trackpad is not nearly as frame accurate nor as fast as the keyboard. Edit an intense action scene with a mouse/trackpad, very difficult.

Yeah I can understand this. I am still using my old Wacom tablet for editing with FCP X and its mouse is super precise for trimming. But maybe that's because I'm so familiar with it.

- Ronny

I think a "trim mode" would be fine. Maybe just get rid of the precision editor, which nobody uses, and replace that with a two-up display when I double-click an edit.

The "show detailed trimming feedback" button in preferences has to be selected for the two pane trimming to show up, Why not make that definable for keyboard and mouse trimming at the same time.

I see it as useful too. Although, I never really think about not having it while using the keyboard.

also, using the command key while trimming makes it, dare I say, MORE frame accurate.

I use the precision editor daily...

BenB wrote: I use the precision editor daily...

Fair enough hah. I would probably use it too IF they added the two-up display in that mode.

I have aske for this since day 1, and I started using FCPX in version 10.0.0... every update i this it was there, but it isn't, and every update I make a nee feature request. For me the precision editor should have this, its what makes sense, or at least work as it works in Davinci resolve.... any way, using keyboard is always going to be more precise and les fatiguing to the wrist.

Thanks to all for contributing their input. As expected there are some diverse points of view, but I think Apple could add in 2 heads up display (with keyboard trimming) and do it in an "elegant way." And yes, if some editors are not doing scripted narrative programming, and we are talking honestly a small number here, then the need for more keyboard trimming visual feedback may not be as great.

In my effort to try and get my film school students and other university faculty to see the many advantages of FCPX, it would be nice to be able to present the trimming tool as having evolved to offer as much visual feedback that Avid does. The students love that two heads up Avid display and trimming on both sides of the cut via the keyboard. Because there is a lot of match action cutting going on, with a few exceptions most feel this can best be achieved more precisely through the keyboard rather than dragging/clicking the mouse. If FCPX added this as a feature, it would give me further ammunition to make some inroads at school with the software.

Also, I used Twitter today to contact feature film editor Jan Kovac who edited FOCUS starring Will Smith. When I asked him about the absence of the 2 heads up display while trimming on the keyboard, he replied that when he is working with the Cintiq (pen and tablet) he doesn't miss it that much, but when he cuts on his Mac Book Pro (he splits up his working methods on FOCUS) he would really like to have the feature.

Since Apple seems to be reaching out in some ways to capture more of that small niche of Hollywood editors, you would think that they would listen to Jan...and follow suit.

That said, I would encourage those that do miss the feature to again fill out the FCPX feedback page...and keep requesting it. I think overall it would be a further enhancement to the software and it would certainly help me be a more efficient editor when cutting narrative work. I did, by the way, cut an entire feature film, DEBATING ROBERT LEE, starring Beau Bridges and Kaley Cuoco, on the old Final Cut Pro, back in 2003 and it worked out great. I'm now doing narrative shorts and documentary work in FCPX...and I would be eager to try and cut another indie film with it...provided they add back one tiny little feature!