Problems Importing 60fps AVCHD into FCP X

I've been importing some 24fps AVCHD footage into FCP X with no problem using the prescribed method (copying the entire contents of a card and then selecting "import from camera"), but when I do the same thing with 60fps AVCHD footage, I get error messages. I ended up having to transcode the footage with Aunsoft, which is okay but makes huge .mov files...and I mean huge.

Is there anybody who's successfully imported 60fps AVCHD into FCP X who can share their secret? I gather, from quick searches, that I am not the only person to experience this.

What camera?

So far, it's happened with the little Sony HX9v...today, I'm trying to shoot some 60fps (I usually shoot 24fps) with my Sony NEX 5n and VG20 and try it again. Hey are you Ben Balser by any chance..if so, I just bought your course from MacPro Video last night. Looking forward to it. I'm a 30 year pro still shooter getting into video. thanks!

Am I the Ben Balser who did that video course? I guess that depends on if you like it or not.

OK, not familiar with those cameras. I know we're waiting for Sony to build the AVCHD plugin for FCP X. There is some third party thing folks are using to convert AVCHD to ProRes, don't remember off hand. MPEGStreamClip maybe? I think Sony has some freebie software that does this, too, somewhere.

ProRes is technically not "huge" file sizes, but "normal" file sizes. AVCHD is super compressed, and thus technically "tiny" file sizes. AVCHD is "Long-GOP" compression. This means for each Group Of Pictures (frames), which can be 8-12 frames, only the first one has 100% of the information to reconstruct that frame. Everything else in the GOP are B or P frames, that only have a tiny bit of the information to reconstruct that frame. They have to read off of that first I-Frame, and other B and P frames before and after it in order to reconstruct itself 100%. This is why H.264, AVCHD, HDV, etc, require tons of CPU power to process. Because to process one frame, you have to process the whole GOP. So if you playback one GOP that is 8 frames long, the computer has to read the entire GOP for each frame it plays back. That's reading and reconstructing the GOP 8 times to play 8 frames of video. This keeps the file sizes down very small. Plus, they're not 4:4:4 color sample ratio, which eats up more file size. It's more like 4:0:0 or 4:2:1 or something.

ProRes converts it to an Intra frame format, all I-Frames, just like DV, DVCPRO-HD, and other all I-Frame formats. Meaning every frame has 100% of the information needed to reconstruct itself, and can carry higher color sample ratios such as 4:2:2, and in higher end cameras the full 4:4:4 color sample ratio.

If you're going to seriously do video, you need to seriously invest in drive space, preferably a good RAID 5 system.

Ben: So far, I'm liking the instructional video, so not to worry!

Is Sony working on an FCP X plug in for AVCHD? Oh happy day! This format has been the bane of my existence since starting to dabble in video. I bought some Sony stuff to deal with some of the video shortcomings of my Nikon DSLRs, only to have to deal with this super Mac-unfriendly format. I still shoot everything I can with the DSLR, but occasionally I need 60p, or an easier, quicker way to get decent audio, and I turn to the Sonys.

I've used a few of the conversion programs (a few of them, from Aunsoft, Cineform, etc.) and the files they put out are seriously huge. I have two Drobos with 12TB of storage in each, but when ten minutes worth of clips takes up 100GB and more, it's not going to take long to fill that storage up, especially with Drobo's redundancy that gives about 4 TB of storage to 12TB of space.

Well, I'll keep hoping that Sony's plug in comes out before my 12TB runs out.

Thanks for your help.

I record to my laptop via an Apogee Duet. But for more rigorous, run-and-gun shooting, you may want to look at this.
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/563070-RE...Audio_Mixer_and.html

I know a few DSLR shooters who use the JuicedLink converter and love them. They've sold all their "video" style cameras and only shoot DSLR now, running audio to the camera itself.

I'd love to get my hands on one of those AVCHD files that FCP X won't ingest to run some tests with.

Those file sizes you're worried about, well, welcome to video! Are they being transcoded to ProRes (LT)? That's what they should be. not HQ or anything. Just ProRes (LT).

Ben:I've been doing dual audio too (and boy does FCP X make that easy). But you know, hanging the LCD viewfinder, and the audio recorder, and the extra mic, etc. etc. on a DSLR makes it bigger and slower to work with. I do a lot of travel work (been a Nat. Geo contributor since 1980) and I need something small and ready to use that I can pull right out of the bag and start shooting without trussing it up to three times its native size (the camera's footprint, not its files!). I'm a Nikon guy and so far, none of their cameras offer a 60fps option.

Thats why the Sony VG20 , for instance, was so appealing. It has the big chip, the possibility for shallow depth of field, but it has an articulating screen, built-in EVF, decent mic, the 60p, all in a compact package that is fairly affordable.

I'm shooting some 60fps with it (VG 20) this afternoon and will hope for the best. Maybe my problem with the little Sony was a formatting thing. Because the 24p stuff is importing no problem.

And yes, I'm getting the idea that asking about storage space in the video world is like asking questions about the price of yachting. If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it!

Ben: Confirming no FCP X support for importing 60p AVCHD from Sony NEX5n either. Will test the VG20 tomorrow. But if you have Apple's and/or Sony's ear, can ask for 60p support for AVCHD? Thanks! Bob

I do not have access to those cameras. Fill out the FCP X feedback page.

i also have sony nex 5n and shoot a lot of 50p footage.

Its easy to import them...

Just use this program www.divergentmedia.com/clipwrap
It doesn't convert them, it just changes the enclosure format (RERWRAP) from mts-> mov
Same file size , no wasting time.....

I just put my sd card in my macbook slot, open the clip wrap program and rewrap the files i want.
Then i drag n drop them into FCPX and put them in a 50p timeline... easy and quick

So then from MTS you get Mpeg-2 .mon files? Not sure MPEG-2 is supported as an editing format. I know it won't grade well. Are you having any playback problems?

Who said about mpg2 ?
Clipwrap just rewrap the mts -> Mov file (same h.264 format in another container - .mov).
Its the same exactly file with another container, so FCPX can import it.

MTS is in fact an MPEG-2 file with the Blu Ray .mts wrapper. Making it a QT MPEG-2 doesn't make it not MPEG-2. I am curious as I've never seen MPEG-2 work well as an editing file format. Just because a file is a QT file doesn't make it good for editing with, nor compatible.

If you open the converted file in QT Player, open the Movie Inspector window, what does it say for Format?

I have Clipwrap, and it is fast, but they advise on their site that it is not good for editing. But maybe the re-wrapped clips make it easier for FCP X to transcode them ? It would so nice if it was this simple....

BenB wrote: MTS is in fact an MPEG-2 file with the Blu Ray .mts wrapper. Making it a QT MPEG-2 doesn't make it not MPEG-2. I am curious as I've never seen MPEG-2 work well as an editing file format. Just because a file is a QT file doesn't make it good for editing with, nor compatible.

If you open the converted file in QT Player, open the Movie Inspector window, what does it say for Format?

I think you are wrong... mts files aren't Mpg2.
They are AVCHD files -AVC high profile 4.2 version.
Clipwrap just changes the container and then FCPX can see those files.
I am doing this all the time.
I don't have any problem editing those files.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.mts

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

MTS and AVCHD are very, very different animals.

sony nex writes mts (not m2ts) files.

Please try clip wrap and you will see... its a very fast process .
There is no transcoding - encoding to this metho, i use it all the time with FCPX.

I'm going to try it over the weekend. If it works as well for me, it saves a ton of headaches when it comes to handling 60fps AVCHD in FCP X. cheers, Bob

Just to add some info: the highest-quality AVCHD files (50p here in Europe, presumably 60p over there) recorded by a Panasonic TM900 or similar are apparently a proprietary format that is not recognized by FCP X (25fps and 50i are fine). I love the camera, hate the incompatibility, since to get any kind of seriously clean footage, I have to shoot in 50p, even if I want 25p in the end. As far as I have determined, clipwrap - in transcoding mode - is the only program that can handle these reliably. The resulting 50p ProRes files will work in FCP X, including for slow-mo effects (half speed then gives you lovely smooth 25p footage), but bog down FCP X. So if I know I will be working in 25fps only, after transcoding in clipwrap I THEN eliminate the extra frames by passing it through mpeg streamclip, leaving all the encoding the same except for rendering out at 25fps. It's the only way with the Pana, and it's driving me buggy, but no choice. Just a heads-up for anyone considering this camera or its siblings for its 50p mode.

I can't decide with whom I am more annoyed....Apple for not making FCP X able to deal with 60fps AVCHD files, or Sony and Panasonic for ever inventing this dreaded format.

AVCHD is quickly becoming the standard for almost all camcorders, and yet, there's hardly a computer that can deal with it @ 60fps without problems....and lately both Sony and Panny are making point and shoot cameras with 60 fps AVCHD as the one and only option! Crazy.

I'm a pro still shooter getting into video, and I have to say that all these codecs and formats in video are making me nostalgic for the still world. We have our RAW files, our Tiffs, and our JPEGs, but damn, they all play nicely with any computer...

Do most folks who buy Sony and Panny really just hook their cameras up to their HD TVs and play clips? Because that seems to be the rationale for AVCHD.