Music video for French M6?

Hey!

I'm working on a music video and found out that the French TV station M6 might be interested in airing it.

I have a specification sheet, but I know next to nothing about that stuff, as I have never produced anything specifically for TV. The video is shot with FS700 internal AVCHD and A7s internal XAVC-S. Which means of course that the footage is 8-bit.

Do you think it will be a problem? And if so, is there a way to get around it now afterwards?


Cheers.

What is the station asking for? (format/codec)

I really don't know

I guess I'm mostly curious if someone new it's possible to get things broadcasted that have been shot in 8bit 4.2.0 or not at this point. But I guess I will find out eventually

Television broadcasting has typically been 8bit as an example of this, even the new Avid DNxHR codecs are all 8bit except for HQX and 444 that are 10 bit. (Avid is slowly trying to be as good as FCP 7 that was EOL many years ago, HO HO HO). Seriously you have to get the spec sheet and conform to it. You can output a 10bit file even if the sources are 8bit, ProRes is 10 or 12 bit. It won’t make the file better than the original but the output will be 10bit. The spec sheet might however include limitation on the sources format but usually this is more about the definition of the sources.

Hey Dmitri,

M6 is a division of the RTL group, and we deliver a lot of programs to RTL. The delivery specifications (called PAD) are different depending on the station and the type of program. As an example: for commercials M6 requires French voice-over or subtitles while other stations of the group don't.

If you have received a technical specifications sheet just mail it to me: ronnycourtens(at)mac(dot)com and I will tell you exactly how to prepare your timeline and what export format you will need to use. Don't worry about the original source format or bit depth, that's completely irrelevant for broadcast delivery. More important are broadcast QC requirements, correct leader and program TC and info, audio channel layout and delivery format/wrapper. Once you have done one you will see how easy it is.

- Ronny

ronny courtens wrote: … Don't worry about the original source format or bit depth, that's completely irrelevant for broadcast delivery. …

Really? I'm (still) under the impression, broadcasters demand 4:2:2 as 'native format' ... (but, more and more ignore their own standards in their one productions, you see f.e. Canon 5Ds are heavy in use… ) Reading on other boards, this is a frequent question… 

A very quick'n dirty search spits out this find (not he latest, I know):
www.elcartelmedia.de/xbcr/SID-21BF0C7E-C...ichtlinien_RTLII.pdf

3.1.1 Bildsignale und Datenreduktion
Um Kaskadierungsprobleme bei datenreduzierten Bildsignalen zu vermeiden, dürfen als datenreduzierende Verfahren bei der Programmerstellung nur Methoden verwendet werden, die den Standard 4:2:2 mit einer Video- Datenrate von mindestens 50 Mbit/s unterstützen. Im Rahmen einer Produktion darf nur ein Komprimierungsalgorythmus verwendet werden. Der Einsatz des Standards 4:2:0 oder 4:1:1 setzt das ausdrückliche Einverständnis von RTL II voraus.
Die Herkunft und das ursprüngliche Aufzeichnungsformat sind in jedem Fall auf den beizulegenden MAZ-Karten der Sendebänder mit Angabe des Systems und der verwendeten Komprimierungsart zu vermerken.

… lots of lingo beyond my skills, but the last sentence is a 'killer':
You HAVE to document what the origin format was … (!!)
exporting within specs alone doesn't do the trick…- it seems. :huh:

Or, got those boundaries meanwhile loosen? ...
(I can't imagine - and it doesn't look like! - , that everything shown in TV fulfills those specs… )

Hi Karsten,

Welcome to the wonderful world of broadcasting

It absolutely does not matter what your program was shot in. The delivery specs are always 4:2:2, but that's for the master you send them. It has nothing to do with the recording format. Reality tv is often recorded with lower-end cameras and GoPros, all in 4:2:0. As long as your final program is delivered according to delivery specs and it passes QC (video levels, audio levels, drops...) you are good to go.

A correct master is made in post-production. At the company we use VidChecker to do a realtime QC on the final program before we create the delivery MXF. This program analyses audio, video, loudness, PSE flashing, possible drops, play-length, timecodes, lead-in, color bars, black sequences, lead-out, captions etc... But in most cases a careful "eye" QC using the scopes and audio meters will keep you safe. In all the years I have been working in broadcast I have received the weirdest footage shot in the weirdest formats. But I have never had one single master rejected by a station.

- Ronny

Thanks Ronny!

Very interesting and also confirmed my suspicion a bit. That at least for shorter thing like music videos, they can send about anything if they like.

I will try to find the spec sheet, thanks again!

ronny courtens wrote: ……Welcome to the wonderful world of broadcasting …

No, no, no!!! I had a 'cubicle' at broadcasting … been there, done that, never ever again!! :woohoo:

ronny courtens wrote: … As long as your final program is delivered according to delivery specs and it passes QC (video levels, audio levels, drops...) you are good to go. …

That was my assumption too: meanwhile, even the Big Ones use so many 'consumer cams', that couldn't fulfill those 'specs'.

I was just stumbling over the 2nd word in my quote above "Kaskadierungsprobleme" = cascading compression problems = e.g. a 'low' Chroma-sub-sampling is often the reason for banding; and you don't solve this issue by exporting in the end to a higher Chroma-sub-sampling rate...

… whatever - your competence is undoubted! Tricky enough to fulfill the standards of the 'header' you're listing!! :silly:

<creeping under my hobbyist stone, "aahhh, cozy!">

Yes, the worl of video is really confusing with various file formats that can be in a trillion different codecs etc. Then the broadcast world adds another layer of complexity on top of that

Anyway, so far this is all I have to go on:
www.groupem6.fr/effective-tech-rec-RFB.pdf

Hey Dmitri,

Those are specifications for tape delivery. That was before 2011, which was the end of the Middle Ages in broadcast

E-mail your contact person and ask for the "Fiche technique" or "fiche P.A.D" for tapeless delivery ("support digital"). Unless you really want to deliver this on HDCAM tape?

- Ronny

I thought it didn't make sense!

Don't have a contact person at this point but with try to ask others if they can ask somebody to ask the station

Thanks!

Slightly new twist on the question... And I sort of fear that I know the answer already...

The video will now be shopped around to other stations etc. Is there any generic broadcast format I could export it to?

Thanks.

If these are European stations most of them will accept 1080i25 XDCAM HD@50Mbps in an MXF wrapper with 4 or 8-channel audio. For music videos (just a stereo track and no separate M&E channels) you will have to split your stereo audio into two dual mono channels (A1 + A2) and leave the remaining 2 or 6 channels silent.

Since Apple has added native MXF support all this can easily be done with FCP X and Compressor.

Just a sidenote:

If you are just the editor and not the producer of this music video it is very often much easier to just send a ProRes master to a post house and let them take care of the broadcast mastering. The producer (your client) will have to pay for this because he is responsible for the distribution of his program, and not you.

If you are the producer and you want to do everything yourself to save money you should ask the stations to send you their technical sheets and then we can figure out a delivery workflow that will be acceptable for every station. Delivering for broadcast looks much more complicated than it really is

- Ronny

ronny courtens wrote: .... Delivering for broadcast looks much more complicated than it really is ...

just to feed my amateurish curiosity: What MEDIA do you deliver such files? Do the braodcasters offer some FTP-upload? 2.5" harddrives (files are huge, aren't they)? a 128GB/usb3 flash-stick?? :blink:

The vast majority of broadcasters in Europe (even local ones) accept master delivery over FTP. With any decent connection you can upload very large files in very little time.

- Ronny

Thanks again, Ronny!

So, if I export it as ProRes it should all be good? (For me)

Unfortunately, my internet up speed is super slow, usually takes 45 minutes to upload a 300mb video to YouTube

If your client is going to take care of the broadcast distribution, just send him the ProRes master. If the client has an FTP server you can send the file over FTP. It doesn't matter how long this takes, you can do the upload overnight.

He will have to go to a post house to create the broadcast masters according to the specifications of the different channels. Any decent post house will do a preliminary QC on the master before they send it to the stations.

- Ronny

Thanks!
I might be back with more questions if the station(s) pick up the video

No problem, Dmitri. That's why we are here

- Ronny