Multicam with external media in 10.1.3 makes my head hurt!

Hi there,

long time reader, first time poster here.. and a long one at that (sorry!) but I'm desperate.

I'm currently working on a large(ish) project that has about 16-20 libraries, one for each character of the documentary. Within each library is a multi cam project with the synced interviews, a project timeline with the edited multi cam along with markers, annotations etc.

These were originally managed media files, with the libraries stored on multiple external drives (little did I know...). I have realised when starting to edit these clips into a new separate MASTER library project (i.e. the assemble cut), that each time FCPX had to copy the actual file over to the new library.. total nightmare!

After some research I stumbled across Larry's article which explained exactly my type of problem along with a solution: www.larryjordan.biz/fcp-x-convert-managed-to-external-media/

I successfully changed all my managed media to external media, where the media for library 1-6 is sitting on drive I, the media for library 7-16 plus the new MASTER edit library is sitting on drive II. Now when I look at the FCPX inspector for my project, it tells me it is using the referenced files from both of the drives. Brilliant! This seems to work well whenever I copy/paste single clips.

Enter multicam: Now when I copy&paste a section/range of a multicam clip, it will create a copy of the full multi cam file in the MASTER project and places the clip on my MASTER timeline. Problem is, it is doing this for each and every clip I'm pasting. FCPX is piling up a long list of the same multi cam file, appending a number in ascending order to tell them apart. There is no way I can manage this in my editing process as they all have their own settings/edits applied, as far as FCPX is concerned they are all individual files..ugh!

To make things worse, opening the multi cam file from within the MASTER project (the little clip I've just placed on the timeline), it tells me that all of a sudden it now links SOME of the files to the external media folder, and SOME of the files back to the MASTER library (as if it was managed media). Say what?!?! The original multi cam clip files were all linking to the external media folder. Something is going on when copy/pasting that makes FCPX think it should change some of the links randomly to a different location.

Plus a large number of the files now link to the dreaded _asynccopy folder, which means sooner or later they're gonna break? :ohmy:

It also loses the log processing option for some of the BM clips, seemingly for the ones that are now linked to the async folder so clearly meta data seems to be missing as well. Its still showing the option for the clip that's right next to it but linking to the managed library folder.

What a mess. To recap, the problems are:
- multiple instances of multi cam clips in the MASTER PROJECT browser for each clip that is copied on the timeline
- FCPX re-linking files within the multi cam to weird locations from a previously perfectly setup multi cam clip
- log processing all of a sudden not available for clips that have the option in the original multi cam clip
- FCPX links files to the _asynccopy folder although it should only reference the external media without trying to copy anything.

Any help is greatly appreciated, I'm totally clueless how to tackle this edit without the proper way of placing files on my master timeline. Thanks!

completely ignoring the technical issues of your problem, and not discussing why using several Libraries instead of several Events/smart lists/tagging... maybe a very cheap [strike]solution [/strike]workflow to solve your riddles:

You have pre-compounds <shiver> in your several Libs, you then staple together in your Master, right? - so:

Why not exporting the 'subs' as solid proRes files?
Instead of Multicams?
'cause: when you need editable MultiCams in your Master-Project - why then 'subs' at all??

OK, then in your Master Project, you indeed can only 'cut' those consolidated .movs; but, as I understand your workflow, that is what you're doing: pre-edit, then stitch 'amde chapters' together.

Hi Karsten,

thanks for your reply.

This proposed work-around wouldn't work in my case for several reasons. Working with "flat" prores files as "intermediates" of the multi cam clips etc would cause the following problems:
- I would lose the ability to edit the RAW files of my project, only the ProRes files are left.
- I would lose all the meta data that's connected to each individual clip
- I would lose multichannel audio configurations for multi cam clips
- I would have to re-cut (!) ALL of my interviews
- I would lose ability to switch angles if needed
- and so much more.

This is not about stitching together a few big blocks of readily cut projects, it's about putting together a puzzle of thousands of clips to create the MASTER edit of the project whist keeping the flexibility of having each clip with its original data.

Sorry if that was not clear from my description of the problem.

The reason why I have separate libraries in the first place (amongst other things) are best described here:
www.larryjordan.biz/fcp-x-divide-large-libraries/

Tjard wrote: ... Working with "flat" prores files as "intermediates" of the multi cam clips etc would cause the following problems:...

I'm aware of the differences btw. 'editable source files' and 'consolidated internmediates' - I understood your workflow, you're doing 'finished pre edits' in the sub Libraries ... pretty sure, I didn't understand your intentional need of 'nesting multicams' ... me hobbyist, my projects are tiny... LOL!

Hopefully, one of the 'giants' of these boards will join ... ok, US actually sleeping... but Belgium is awake: Ronny...?

sorry of being no help...
me too simple thinking....

If you still have files int he asynccopy folder, that suggests to me that during your re-organization, the consolidating function did not complete before FCPX was shut down (or crashed or what have you). I'm not 100% sure if that's your case. This is where it keeps an extra copy of the media while you're moving it around, so in the case that you have a sudden disconnection, you don't lose your media (in fact, it used to NOT do this which was a huge problem until they issued a bug fix).

In general, you may want to abandon your current organization method of putting each subject in its own library. Theoretically it should work if all your media is external, but it's a lot of extra organizational work when master clips are copied from one library to another. Why don't you just have each subject as an event, and work out of one large library? It shouldn't be too late to do this re-organization. Also, it sounds like you need to do a lot of relinking once you've brought them into the library.

Your biggest problem is the fact that you have separate libraries that seem to have some of the same multicam clips shared between them. FCPX seems to think that each multicam clip, even if it's identical to another one, is considered a "different" clip if it's copied from one library to another one that doesn't have the clip. This will become a huge mess as you are already seeing. I don't really see another way to fix this other than using one library, but other people may have suggestions.

Of course, before you start your reorganization, you should keep good backups of what you currently have.

Hi Haysoos,

yes I know the purpose of the asynccopy folder, but this doesn't explain why the original multi cam clip is referencing the correct files, whilst the copy/pastes one has SOME clips referencing the async folder for no reason.

Please read the link to Larry's article again and you will understand why it makes perfect sense to keep the files organised in different libraries. It works great, and it doesn't duplicate files usually, apart from the fact that it creates a separate entity of my multi cam clip each time I copy/paste a snippet.

My hope is that I am doing a mistake in this workflow that might be causing this, and I might not be aware of a crucial detail that prevents this from working flawlessly.

I am not ready to change the entire project structure yet again to have 10000s of clips within on single library, let along that I won't be able to have them spread across different drives. At the moment everything is perfectly linked until the point where I copy a certain multicam clip (all other multi cam clips are fine even if copy/pasted).

thanks for your suggestions and your input!

You can have one library referencing media spread across as many drives as you need. That's the thing: if you reorganize, you can just keep your media files where they are on the drives. That doesn't need to change. One library can point to everything.

I guess if you can live with those redundant multicam clips, what you're doing is ok. I would just go over every library and relink to the correct media on those drives. It's possible that you ran into some kind of bug with the async folder, but I've never seen your problem of spontaneous relinking.

Having multiple libraries for one project is fine, it's just that I haven't ever seen anyone go as extreme as having one library per subject. I can tell you that I will often use a separate library that has our sound library organized by keyword, for example, and just pull from there when I'm doing sound work. Or it could be the case that I'll make a separate library when it comes to the online/finishing stage so that the only master clips in that library will be the ones that are used.

haysoos123 wrote: .... Why don't you just have each subject as an event, and work out of one large library?,,,

oh, ooh, you opened Pandora's Box
I didn't dare to say that in my initial post .... :silly:

And Tjard reflects on Larry Jordan's recommendations… who are we, to doubt that?
... although, Larry says, the 'benchmark' varies, from 3.000 to 10k of clips... which is... a lot.

Although Larry speaks a very straight forward language, I'm always missing one phrase, when it comes to explain the CONCEPT of Libs/Events/Projects:

a Library is no physical 'place' to store things!
It is just a sort of description where is what.

That whole Lib/Events/projects thingie is about tags; not 'drawers'.
Not files'n folders - but data-base, links, connections, what-if-conditions.
I would have call it a Course reserve .... but who knows nowadays, what that is.

Although the OP's project seems to easily outpace that '3.000 benchmark' Larry recommends for splitting Libs, the feature of Managed Media and External Media, Larry explains at the very beginning of his article, shows, you're not limited, you can store your material of one Lib on several places.

I guess, at the very beginning of a Project that magnitude, you have to open your mind, and get rid of this single dimensional organization scheme 'one clip, one bin, one drawer'.

e.g. when you 'abuse' Libs to organize 'by person' - how do you filter stuff? You're looking for some quotes on the same topic - in several libs you have to do several searches. In one Lib, you create a smart list prompting all clasp tagged with that quote...

.. just as a suggestion to get deeper into the CONCEPT of Lib/Events/Projects.. it does NOT replace bins&drawers...