Open Compound Clip in Main Timeline Feature?

I really need to be able to open or expand a compound clip inside of the main timeline so that I can still reference the surrounding audio and video clips in the main timeline when I need to make changes. Similar to the "Show Video Animation" feature or how you can open a "group" in the timing pane in Motion and see all the clips in reference to everything else in the timing pane. Avid had what they called a "Collapsed clip" that did this and was probably one of my favorite features in Avid.

Here is a youtube video I created very quickly to demonstrate how I see this feature working. I produce commercials for NBCUNI, but of course I could not use client clips for the demonstration video so I just used a couple of elements I could post on youtube to get the point across. Watch until the end as that is where I show the example of how I'd like to see this work.

Does anyone know if there is some way to do this that perhaps I am missing? If not, and you feel this feature could be useful to you please send apple a feature request. You're more than welcome to send them a link to the video if you'd like. I know the only way to get them to add something is if enough people ask for it.

This is a feature I REALLY need.

Thank you,
Shawn

… sorry, I'm on a mission
Why, for heaven's sake, a compound anyhow?

What you try to re-establish is 'tracks' - … FCPX 'groups' stacked clips by the magnetic-timeline automatically: move the main clip in the story line, all stacked clips are connected to - done. No need to 'collapse' nor grouping them.

OK, for aesthetics, a single compound avoids 'clutter' in the timeline, but if - as in your example - the three elements need to be timed, lil' sense collapsing them. if you need 'em un-collapsed anyhow.

My Mantra:
compounds are evil :silly:

(not exactly, but in 90% cases, you miss the concept and some main features of FCPX by using compounds)

Sorry to rain on your mission, Karsten, but I'm with Shawn here.

When you do lots of projects that include compositing, using compound clips is a MUST. CCs allow you to handle pre-composed stacks of clips as one single unit instead of having to group-select every clip in the stack every time you need to tweak or move the stack. They are also very handy to apply general filters to a group of pre-composited clips, and to save stacks of pre-composited elements as one single clip for re-use. So there is no question if compound clips are valuable or not: they are. They have the same function as nests in any other NLE, or pre-comps in After Effects.

That's why I entirely agree that being able to temporarily un-collapse and re-collapse compound clips in the main timeline, allowing you to tweak individual elements of the CC while seeing exactly how this relates to other elements on the main timeline (like audio effects in a soundtrack or underlying video clips), is an absolute necessity.

To be fair: this feature DOES exist in FCPX, though in a limited way. It's called Break Apart Clip Items (SHIFT+CMD+G). This command will un-collapse any CC on the main timeline and reveal every clip inside it, allowing you to tweak the individual elements of the CC right on the main timeline. The only problem is that there is no way to re-collapse the CC again: you have to make a new CC from the clips once you have done the tweaking. But it's a good start, and I can live with it.

- Ronny

Thank you Ronny! You are exactly right. (Please send a feature request to Apple if you don't mind.) Compound clips are a must when you work with many layers of graphics and video elements, as I do on a daily basis. I do know about "Break apart clip items" however, it is very inefficient for the work I do. I often have transitions on the compound clips as well as keyframed attributes. So if I break everything apart to make a change then I have to re-create all the effects on the compound clip when I do re-collapse it. Not to mention breaking it apart could get very messy.

If FCPX had this feature then it would also allow us to create the layered effects from the beginning as well.

-Shawn

Hi Karsten, Thanks for the reply. You are however mistaken about compound clips. There are many times especially now in FCPX where in order to make an effect work you absolutely have to use compound clips. If you are not familiar with working with projects that require many layers of graphic elements and video then you will of course miss the point of Compound clips and their usefulness.

Shawn

Shawnfcp wrote: ... If you are not familiar with working with projects that require many layers of graphic elements and video then you will of course miss the point of Compound clips and their usefulness.

Hi Shawn (and Ronny),

I knew, my statement was in its 'asolutism' provocative... And for sure, me tiny hobbyist can not overview the many needs a professional editor has to an NLE.

... but such threads are not only read by professionals, who create 'magic' with FCPX, but by many beginners like me. And, and I'm stubborn to repeat my mantra, for basic editing, with cut-aways, with secondaries, PiP, graphic overlays, etc etc, there's very little need for compounds. (I'm using a compound as well - the intro for my weekly report is a compound, to keep the timing of my opening sequence, in which I replace some content with the actual one).

In my lil' habitat, I'm noticing, amateurs are too lazy to learn the many advantages NOT to use compounds; I'm noticing, cmd-opt-arrow down is the less known keyboard-shortcut of all - I'm using it 'daily': do timing on a second 'layer', when done, apply to main storyline; done.

No need to convince me about the 'must' of compounds - share your insights, I can only learn from you.

... but the simple example in your OP, Shawn, has no need for a compound
(yeeees, I know, it was meant only to illustrate your basic point, don't take me too serious)
_______________

my conclusion of your needs is a more general one (no new):
a much better detour-workflow/intergartion with Motion is still on top of list of 'most wanted'-features!

If you'd be able to'swap' btw. FCPX' and Motion Project with some simple 'click', you would do complex compos not in an editor, but in a compositing tool...

... but a renaissance of layers ... ? wohoo.. not to soon.- :blink:

ok, creeping back under my stone ....... :lol:

Hey Karsten,

I agree that many non-professional FCPX users rarely go beyond the basic features of the application, so you have a good point there. I also agree that a perfect integration with Motion X would make a lot of compounding work obsolete.

But to achieve what Shawn is suggesting we would have to be able to open complete FCPX timelines in Motion X, which seems difficult at this stage. In the meantime just allowing us to un-collapse and re-collapse existing CCs on the main timeline while preserving any general effects or transitions that have been applied to the CC would indeed be very useful IMO. And there is no need to re-introduce tracks :evil: for that. So I have hit the feedback button once again

- Ronny

ronny courtens wrote: ... un-collapse and re-collapse existing CCs ...

That's indeed a major inconsistency in a(ny) GUI:
when you're allowed to uncollapse something, it should vice versa too ....


cc evil, tracks evil ... we're getting close to
www.fcp.co/render-fodder/videos/39-video...pgraded-to-version-2

:lol: :silly: :lol:

Thanks for this discussion, useful to people like me who are feeling our way.

How does the Multicam clip compare? I haven't used CCs much yet, but I'm using Multicam to edit a simple corporate instructional/lecture, 2 cameras, long shot to camera and close-up off camera for cutaways. I record the audio separately so multi cam is useful for quickly syncing everything, and for making initial rough cuts.

What would be useful would be to be able to easily dive into the multi cam clip to make small adjustments to the audio and video edits. Double clicking the clip in the timeline opens the clip as an event timeline, but this doesn't show my edits, so is no use for this. The precision editor is more useful, but doesn't seem to show the audio tracks?

Is there a command to convert a multi cam clip back into a set of linked clips in the timeline?