I need your advice

Greetings. I need your advice.

i'm getting the new iMac for editing short films with FX via FCP X, music/recording and Photoshop. There are two setups that means double price of each other:

The top one:
-27"
-Intel Core i7 quad core 3,5GHz
-32GB de SDRAM DDR3, 1600MHz - 4X8GB
- Drive Fusion de 1TB
- NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M com 4GB de GDDR5

And the cheaper one with HALF price (yes, brasil):

-21.5"
-Intel Core i5 quad core, 2,9GHz
-16GB de SDRAM DDR3, 1600MHz - 2X8GB
-Drive Serial ATA de 1TB, 5400 RPM
-NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 1GB

My first question is it worth/do I need the double price top version?

Another question is: By now i'm not able to use an external hdd. In that case, what should a choose: a fusion 1tb or a ata 7200 1tb?

Thank you very much.

Need? No, I can cut pretty well on my 15" macbook pro, but on my dual 27" office setup I can cut much faster as I don't have to resize the event viewers.

Also, FCP X really utilizes the i7's hyperthreading really well. You can do a google search and some of the benchmarks between i5s and i7s with similar clock speeds show around a 40% increase in performance.

It really comes down to what you can afford when it comes to video editing, especially if you want to do any effects work. If you ever need to use a denoiser like the amazing Neat Video, you are really going to appreciate having as much computing muscle to throw at it.

The best advice I received from a well respected member of this forum when I was deciding on what mac pro I want is "Max out your GPU". If FCP X is your weapon of choice this couldn't be more true.

Keep in mind, Apple still sells a 27" Thunderbolt display for $1000, the same one that comes with the iMac. Once you deduct that from the price, that's what you are really paying for the computer.

(p.s. If it were a mac pro, get the memory from apple. For the iMacs, order a crucial for mac 32gb kit for around $300 US, it will save you $300)

Well, that's what a though... Here in Brazil, to top end imac will cost me $USD 5.000. But what can I do, it will be usefull.

And what about the fusion x ATA? I will not use an external hdd, so wich one do you think is better for me?

Thank you very much for your help, was really usefull.

Good advice from Darren. Either of those iMacs will work well, just one of them will work better. Whether that matters enough to you to justify the cost is something only you can answer.

As I understand it, the current 21" iMac doesn't have user-accessible RAM slots. Buy as much as you think you'll ever need when you first order the system (hint: 16Gb).

As for drive: I've just built out a DIY fusion drive in a 2010 MacBook Pro, and I'm astonished at the difference it makes. For media storage of course it makes no difference, but for general use and particularly launching applications it's awesome. Feels very much like a pure SSD system. If you're going to sit in creative apps all day it's probably not worthwhile, but if you're doing email and web stuff too there's a lot to be said for a fusion drive.

You are most welcome.

Just as jjsanderson said, the fusion drive is a major speed boost for opening apps, but it also works better when you don't fill it up.

Although this is becoming less true, putting media on the system drive is risky. Esp with FCP X as it likes to do a lot of rendering, transcoding, etc. With a fusion drive, you are 2X more likely to have a hard drive failure since you are using two drives to make one. I've had SSDs die twice. I would strongly advise an external raid at least a dual drive USB 3.0, or thunderbolt if you can manage it. The Western Digital has user swappable drives and is very reasonable.

I thought your government stopped Apple from overcharging? I priced out your config (minus the ram) on the 27" and it came to $2500 US. That is terrible. My wife is from Australia, same thing, they charge 30% more there (accounting for currency exchange) even though it's closer to China.

No, no, no... It's too much burocracy to stop overcharging.... and btw, is not Apple that is overcharging, it's the taxes.. almost 50% over an imported product. The reason - that THEY say - is to secure our own industry, wich construct TERRIBLE machines and overprice it anyway, plus taxes. That's Brazil... if you want to become rich with audio and video, you must become rich before trying to become rich. That's the logic. At least Apple let us pay in 12x without interest.

About the fusion: someday i'll use an external hdd. But for now - if I understood what you said - would be better keep the ATA hd, right?

Thanks again.

The fusion drive is totally worth it, I would make sure to keep a current backup is all. That applies to any kind of drive.

Darren Roark wrote: Although this is becoming less true, putting media on the system drive is risky. Esp with FCP X as it likes to do a lot of rendering, transcoding, etc. With a fusion drive, you are 2X more likely to have a hard drive failure since you are using two drives to make one. I've had SSDs die twice.

Sorry to derail the thread but this statement spooked me. I've been editing for about 9 months from the 500gb SSD on my Retina MBP. I had heard the SSD's are an exception to the rule of not editing from your boot drive. Which brand SSD's were those? Were you on an iMac? MacPro? Do you think the SSD brands matter? Mine is the one the came with the macbook.

SSD's are not an exception to editing on your boot drive. The boot drive has many other tasks it needs to do associated with running the OS and to have it also manage editing of your media is never recommended. The FCPX application can be running from the boot drive but your media clearly should be on another preferably fast drive.

dgwvideo wrote: SSD's are not an exception to editing on your boot drive. The boot drive has many other tasks it needs to do associated with running the OS and to have it also manage editing of your media is never recommended. The FCPX application can be running from the boot drive but your media clearly should be on another preferably fast drive.

I second all of that. Someone said to me data that isn't backed up three times is data that must not be important enough to you.

Just like logic boards, RAM, or any other computer component, ssds can fail. When they do, there is often very little you can do to recover the data, and if there is, it's really expensive. This multiplies with drives that use trim, in other words any apple installed ssd. Platter drives most likely can be rebuilt and recovered as the data is still on the platter where the motor or the drive heads have failed. Just shop around for refurbished SSD drives, when you see how many you have to choose from, you will probably check and see if your time machine is still running.

Ahem, just realized that I'm Cliff Clavining while bored on a plane. Pardon my blathering.

Cliff Clavening!!! LOVE IT!

I would really consider the more expensive iMac. $$ hurts but you are getting a much faster and more capable machine.
When using FCPX and many audio programs, having the faster CPU and GPU will make a big difference.
What people have not address here, tho you asked, is the hdd in the cheaper unit is only 5400rpm, really not good. Especially not good if you will be trying to get away with not using additional external drives for storing media. You really need to have separate drives for media if possible. USB3 external drives work well.
5400rpm drives just don't cut it in modern video editing. Go with the Fusion drive. Flash drive even better.
Ouch on the pricing, but you are buying a unit that will last many years. You won't regret buying the best you can, but you may kick yourself if not getting the faster machine later.
The 27" iMac has user friendly ram access, but the 21" does not and you have to pull the screen to swap out the ram.
Link is a comparison test but unfortunately it leaves out both the 5400rpm drive and the new 2013 Fusion drive. You might look around for some direct comparison test and see what is a must have for you.
Hope this helps, Greg
www.barefeats.com/haswel2.html

Well... as I see, I should really take the top end. You are all right. But for the hd topic, you guys are divided... what about the ATA 7200 RPM? Better?

Well OP,
The 7200rpm hdd are faster than the 5400rpm hdd but are significantly slower than an sad or flash or even the Fusion drive. So it all depends on what you do with your computer.
Shooting HD vids while working in any Adobe programs, you'll be taxing any hdd. Shooting only in SD or even HD but no other programs running, most likely will not hit a bottleneck with a 7200 hdd, but since you say you plan on only have one drive as both boot/application drive and as the media drive, you might see some spinning beach balls. Only having a single drive means the computer has to constantly switch back and forth between read and write operations as well as swapping out ram all on the same bus and drive.
Boot times are also faster with an ssd/flash drive than a hdd. If you can swing an external drive (USB3) for a media drive, then the smaller ssd or flash drive size is not such a big issue. It is if you want a large (1TB) boot drive ($$$) so the trade off I would make would be a smaller boot/application drive plus an external drive of greater capacity, i.e. 7200hdd.
See this comparison of drive speeds by Barefeats but note this is over a year old…http://www.barefeats.com/hard158.html
Some of the links at the bottom of the article have some additional good info.
Everyone has to make the choices according to need and $$$!
I have an older MacPro1.1 using multiple hdds and will be upgrading to a ssd as a boot drive soon, and I have a rMBP with a flash drive. Always enjoy starting up the rMBP more than the MP so use it a lot more.
Hope this helps, Greg

operaghost wrote: No, no, no... It's too much burocracy to stop overcharging.... and btw, is not Apple that is overcharging, it's the taxes.. almost 50% over an imported product.

So how does going through customs in the airport work? I know they make you declare stuff but I don’t know how it all works. Because at that huge price difference you could make a trip to the US to purchase your system and likely still come out ahead. Heck even if you break even at least you got a trip out of it.

Dear gentlemen,

Thank you very much for all your help. I will buy it today or tomorrow according to your suggestions. One small doubt stays: Fusion 1gb or ATA 7200 1gb

This is really my final question (remembering that i will not work with an external HD - but MAYBE one day I will).

So, simple answer: ATA or FUSION?

Thank you and merry xmas and happy new year!

The FUSION will be faster and allow more efficient editing with HD projects, but also MUCH pricier. You will be able to buy a much larger ATA drive 8 TB or better for the price of a 1TB FUSION, so it comes down to what you do and what you can afford to spend. Since you are also going to be running the OS temporarily from the drive (never a good idea, but so be it), I would probably suggest the FUSION for that purpose alone. If you want considerably more room for media, the ATA 7200 RPM drives will be more cost efficient.

So, dgwvideo, the only advantage of the ATA is the space? So the fusion will be the best choice to work without external hd but also the best choice if I start using an external hard drive later?

Thank you.

As the fusion drive combines an SSD with a normal drive, it is much faster - your applications run on the SSD, making the iMac much faster to boot, and to run applications faster.

I have not used one, as my mid 2010 iMac has both an SSD and 7200rpm hard disc, but the principle is the same.

I would say go with the fusion drive and as much RAM as you can afford- you can always add external drives later!

@Operaghost
in my opinion based on the circumstance you describe, the only advantages to the ATA drive are space AND price. I don't know how much media you acquire in a typical work week, but for me a single event shoot can occupy 40 to 60 GB of footage. A weeklong event filming in DVCPRO HD can easily eat up 500GB to 1 TB.