Suspected media management bug/flaw - please discuss...

NOTE - This is a fresh post but a continuation of a previous discussion for the sake of clarity and attracting some fresh eyes.

I have done the testing and this is re-poduceable behaviour. FCPX brings across compound clips when a project contains a clip that a compound clip (which is not used in the project)

It is either
1. a bug
2. meant to be that way and hence a design flaw that seriously impacts media management or
3. me misunderstanding something - which is why I am tabling it here on a forum

Looking foward to hearing your thoughts.

The video attached sums it up: vimeo.com/70009072

...EDIT: Here is another video showing the issue in action in FCPX

vimeo.com/70010804

Maybe this could help...

forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/49163

Thanks Canelson - it looks like this is the exact same thing I've got going on. Lots of reading to be done on that thread...glad to see it's not just me.

I *love* the functionality of Compound clipping as required and then expanding back out to components to keep editing.

Fingers crossed for a solution.

Hey Doug,

Could it have something to do with the unlimited Undo's? Have you tried quiting & relaunching fcpx immediately before you duplicate? This may flush out the issue? Haven't tried it, just a thought.

Good thought but that's been tried.

It's something to do with how the clips relate to each other under the hood. I am optimistic it is being addressed. I have a friend who forwarded this to the FCPX team and they confirmed it is a known issue, which gives me hope that they are working on it. - otherwise they probably wouldn't call it an issue

The workflow of Compound Clipping works so well for me - i am dying to see this properly addressed.

Bring on 10.0.9 , and 10.1 soon after.

Doug Suiter wrote: The workflow of Compound Clipping works so well for me

If by this you mean using Compounds as Projects (timelines), I was using the same workflow, but I left it. There are showing up in various forums threads about corrupted events (and losing all your editing), but I never see one of corrupted projects.
So I'm starting to work on projects again and use compound just when necessary because you can recreate a project if the event dies.

Cheers.

If by this you mean using Compounds as Projects (timelines), I was using the same workflow, but I left it

Yes - that is what i am talking about.

Could you point me to these threads - I have a lot of events I would prefer not to lose

I have not heard of compound clips corrupting events, only of media management issues (which I can live with). Losing Events would be a different story.

I found these:

The Horror only Nightmares are made of
www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/...es-are-made-of#28050

FCP X Event to corrupted to Open
www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/...rupted-to-open#28000

fcpx crashing with compound clip
www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/...-compound-clip#28175

Doug Suiter wrote: Could you point me to these threads - I have a lot of events I would prefer not to lose

I have not heard of compound clips corrupting events, only of media management issues (which I can live with). Losing Events would be a different story.

Cutting sequences in CC's and storing them in the event simply mimics the "project" structure of other NLE's. And, like other NLE's, if you lose an Event (project in FCP 7, PPro speak) whether through corruption or something else, you have lost all your work. If you do your cuts in the Project Library, losing an event is a hassle, but all your edits are still there. Just a word to the wise...

Thanks plyst and canelson

I should make it clear that I am not using compound clips simple to emulate FCP7 style sequences. One reason I love using compound clips is the sheer fluidity of them. For example I can compound an edit, call that Draft 1 and then expand the components again and keep cutting. Then if the client wants a sequence back from "draft one", I skim the compound clip as if a single piece of footage, place it where it needs to be, expand the components and finesse. It is a thing of beauty

That being said:

I think it's a great point that once an event is corrupted you lose every thing when you wouldn't with Projects.

I do from time to time take the event currentversion.event and manually duplicate and save a copy as I edit but I should also say that I have never had an event corrupted that I attribute to the use of compound clips.

The only issue that I have experienced directly related to CCs is the entirely reproduce-able media managing issue I described (which isn't a small issue by any means)

The threads copied in by Canelson (thank you for those) are all discussing corrupt events but I can't see that they are definitively the result of compound clip use.

I use CC's a lot, and I have not experienced any impact on my system at all - although I will say that 1. I have a fully spec'd iMac and 2. The compound clips are many but rarely more than a few levels deep.

I think for now I will continue to use compound clips...and back up like it was going out of style.

Doug Suiter wrote: ...

I think for now I will continue to use compound clips...and back up like it was going out of style.

Excellent plan. I think CC's are great too, I just don't want tons of them cluttering up my Event. Personal preference I guess. As long as you have a good back up strategy, no matter what goes wrong is recoverable fairly painlessly. I'd recommend a good automated backup app rather than the manual method though. The one time you forget to back up is the one time you'll need to.

I'd recommend a good automated backup app rather than the manual method though

Could you recommend one?

I just don't want tons of them cluttering up my Event.

If by cluttering up you mean slowing your machine you have a valid point - although I am amazed at the way Events don't seem to slow my machine at all no matter how complicated (again, it is a beast so...)

However if by cluttering up you mean simply visibly cluttering your event I have taken a different view on this. I describe the event to new editors as a "Well" which everything goes into and which things can be drawn from on command with tools like smart collections, keywords and metadata. With that philosophy there is no such thing as a cluttered event. Before this I saw an event as an intimidating mess. Now I see it as a reservoir.

Doug Suiter wrote:

I'd recommend a good automated backup app rather than the manual method though

Could you recommend one?

I just don't want tons of them cluttering up my Event.

...

However if by cluttering up you mean simply visibly cluttering your event ...

Well, I really like "Backups for final cut pro" on the app store. Because I am paranoid, I also run Digital Rebellions Pro Versioner. For no particular reason, I like Backups more, but they both work well (I needed them both due a little goof i made a while ago...) I also have Carbon Copy Cloner back up my entire internal HD nightly. I cut from shared media, but all my Events/Projects (databases) are on the internal drive. Anyway, I have a lot of backups.

And yes, I make extensive use of KW /Smart collections in my events as well. I just kind of like having my projects organized in folders which I can open and close via Event Manager. I'll typically have upwards of 20-30-40 or more projects pile up as I version them. It's just easier for me to manage them in the Project Library and only have what I need open. Again, personal preference.

Great - thanks

I'm the same. I prefer to keep my Events full of Media and My projects full of edit decisions.
If the media is backed up and your Event becomes unusable no big deal, but if it contains a whole bunch of edits then that is catastrophic.

So like plysat I have a Carbon Copy Clone that I run after I make changes to an Event like import more media.
I also Carbon Copy Clone my Projects fairly regularly and I also run FCP X back nightly.

I'm really not a fan of the Compound Clips and will only use them to "Nest" clips that I want to apply an overall effect to. Or if I have a generic sequence that gets used over and over again.

Look at Pro Versioner from Digital Rebellion. An auto save vault for any application.

Seanus wrote: I'm the same. I prefer to keep my Events full of Media and My projects full of edit decisions.
If the media is backed up and your Event becomes unusable no big deal, but if it contains a whole bunch of edits then that is catastrophic.

Exactly. Also, events and projects are both just databases. One database for your Event, and each Project it's own database. But if all your edits are in CC's in an Event, you're putting a lot of faith in the integrity of one, probably gigantic,complex database. No thanks.