In and Out points move

So I have searched around quite a bit for some clue about this. I'm a recent convert to X from 7, and I keep having this very annoying problem:

As I'm going through a sequence and cutting portions out, I typically drop an in-point and an out-point and delete the section I want to remove. However I frequently find (though not always) that I'll place an in-point, and when I place the out-point, the in-point moves a few frames.

I have no idea why this is happening...any help is welcome!

Thanks.

Has no one else experienced this problem? It is driving me absolutely nuts and making me curse the program. There is no explanation for it as far as I can tell.

Again, I make an in point on the sequence (hit "I"), press space bar to play, press space bar again at my out point, hit "o", and watch the selection range shift.

Sometimes it shrinks the range to select only one frame, sometimes it just shifts the in-point arbitrarily a few frames one way or the other.

I was singing this program's praises recently, and now I'm about ready to abandon it. It is just destroying any sort of rhythm for cutting.

You first post says, "...and delete the section I want to remove." What do you mean by this? I'm guessing you are doing a 3-point edit from the Event Browser but if you are in the Event Browser placing In/Out points and Q/W/E for connect/insert/append edit, why would you need to delete sections?

What is your workflow? Are you creating a new event, then importing all your files, then creating a new project and reference to the newly created event, then doing 3-point edits with your I/O and Q/W/E keys for a rough cut? Or are you dropping all your imported files in the timeline and then "deleting sections" of your clips in the timeline?

Anyway, it shouldn't move the 'In' point at all even if you were in the timeline so that's a really weird behavior. You'll need to provide more details to help troubleshoot this issue because no one else is having the same problem.

Have never seen this behavior. Works like it should for me.

Never seen this either....

Hi,
I have not contributed much before to this excellent forum, but I might have an idea as to what is going on. When you set in and out points with the skimmer activated it will set those points to where the skimmer is not the playhead, so often in my experience you can set an in point thinking that it is where the playhead is and the skimmer will be close by, unfortunately you can end up with the in point (or outpoint) a few frames out because it is setting them to the skimmer. There are a number of solutions but one is to turn off the skimmer before setting in and out points (clumsy) or much simpler make sure that your mouse pointer is not on the timeline, ie pull it off the timeline window altogether ( the orange skimmer will disappear and you can set your in and out points with confidence.

Ian.S (aus)

Good point made by Ian. This is absolutely not a known issue with FCPX, and if it were the internet would be flooded with angry "pros" complaining about it

So there must be some simple explanation why this is only happening to you, and I think Ian's suggestion could be it. And if it isn't, please provide more information about your specific workflow so we can try and help you solve this.

My immediate thought was that it was the skimmer, but turning the skimmer off does not solve the issue. I have been hoping a user error of mine would become apparent, but it really hasn't. I will try to make sure the mouse pointer isn't on the timeline when I start working here in a few.

By the way, to clarify my workflow: I'm taking chunks of dialogue from interviews and putting them on the timeline. Then, in the timeline, I go in and cut out any stumbles or anything the producer has instructed me to remove, and I do my best to finesse cuts to sound natural and uninterrupted.

Again the problem in that I put an in-point, then when i play forward, pause, and put my out-point, the in-point jumps. So, what I'm often forced to do is then go back and place the correct in-point again. This usually works, as the out-point never seems to budge. After successfully making a cut like this, it seems that the problem will go away for a bit, and I'm not sure what triggers or re-triggers it.

My only theory has been that somehow X thinks I'm trying to do something more complex, and that there is some logic behind moving the in-point after I set the out-point.

Thanks for all help!

Thank you for the extra information. There is no logic in this and this is the first report I have ever read about such an issue.

Quick question: what is the format of your footage? Has it been optimized or are you working native?

That was my guess too, that this footage is some unusual format. I did a lot of editing tonight on my old MacPro and nothing I could do would make the in or out points change once they were set.

My only other suggestion is that there is some conflict in your system. Time to start giving us details.
I suspect it maybe a software glitch of some kind, something where the codecs aren't talking to the program properly.
I've seen this kind of behavior before when you two or more NLEs installed on the same system. In. Y case it was FCP 7 and AVID.. All kinds of weird stuff happening.

Ok, well this could be a problem. I have FCP 7, as well as AVID MC 6.5 installed on this system. I never touch AVID (though I'm considering it!), but I have it on my system because that's what the other two editors in my office use. I have FCP 7 installed because I still have a slew of projects I may need to re-visit.

I'm attempting to attach a Screenflow capture of the problem below. It's a small cut I'm trying to make (just cutting out the first of two "It's" that the subject stutters over) If you look closely, you'll see that I recreate the problem on a very small scale, but it is still apparent that the in point jumps forward when the out is placed. In this case it basically shrinks a 3 frame selection to 1 frame.

Tried again to attach a smallish .mp4, maybe that's not possible.

Also, In terms of media management, I am importing media from a server that myself and the other 2 editors share. It is h264 footage from Canon hdSLRs. To save space, I've been attempting to create proxy files locally rather than copying the files over.

Useful information. Like Seanus says it could be a conflict with other software. If this is the case I would get rid of Avid MC. Many FCP users have FCP and FCPX running on the same system (we did for a while as well) and I haven't seen any reports of conflicts so I don't think it is FCP.

On the other hand you first might to do a test with some different footage. Import some media on your local drive, optimize the media to ProRes and see if the same problem is happening.

If it is the first thing you should do is to temporarily delete Avid MC from your system, then trash your FCPX preferences and see if this solves the issue.

If it isn't you should symlink the H.264 files that are on the central server to your local Event and create proxies or optimized media inside this Event.

Ok, thanks for the advice, guys. I may need to just power through the 2 or 3 edits I've got going now and try not to punch my screen

I'll definitely try trashing prefs and importing the media differently, though getting rid of AVID MC might be a tough sell to my boss who has a pronounced dislike for Final Cut already.

I'll update the thread if I discover anything further. Thanks again for the help!

If your boss has seriously tested and compared different editing systems himself in the last couple of months then I respect his opinion. If he hasn't he should refrain from having one

Hi Sometown, I just tried to reproduce your problem on my system but I failed. Everything's working fine here. If you don't find a fast solution to the problem you could also try a workaround: While skimming through your clip in the timeline, don't hit i to make an in-point, but hit cmd-b to cut. Then go to your intended out-point and hit cmd-b again. If the out-point is quite close to the in-point I would even skip the latter part but instead grab the right side of the first cut and move it "downstream" until you reach your out-point. The magnetic timeline does the rest for you. Good luck.

Haha, yeah, well Ronny, as is often the case with these things (much like my current fcp x issue), logic does not apply!

FvH, that is a good, quick workaround that I may resort to. After a rocky start this morning I'm proceeding without issue for the last 45 minutes or so.

The more I think about it, it definitely is some sort of bug or conflict. As I was struggling with the problem earlier, I zoomed in on the timeline quite a bit, and all of a sudden the problem went away. Go figure.

That was my next suggestion(to zoom in) because if you're not zoomed in on a frame level, it will not be frame accurate unless you are editing with the keyboard & shortcuts. You can definitely use the Blade Tool (cmd+b) like FvH suggested and use your JKL for quick transport commands and then Left & Right keys for frame accurate playhead position. If you're trimming the ends (front or back end) of a clip and don't need them, you can also use cmd+[ for the front end trim and cmd+] for the back end trim.