Newbie Ponders the Camera Market

I’m a newbie to all this and I’m trying to wrap my head around the 2013 NAB announcements. I am especially interested in cameras that are sub $1k, (so NAB is not the place for me to be looking). It seems to me there is a resolution arms race in the camera market. I have no illusions that any project of mine will be played on a theater. So why should I care about resolutions upwards of 1080p? I do understand that NAB is for industry professionals; but is it possible that I’m the sole hobbyist who visits creativecow, nofilmschool, and fcp.co? Is everyone else either an industry professional or an aspiring filmmaker?

If my goal is to distribute my project on the web or Bluray, is there any benefit to be gained from resolutions upwards of 1080p (outside of being able to re-frame my shots)?
As a hobbyist, it seems to me that what I should be looking for is high dynamic range, good lowlight performance, and lens compatibility to add a depth of field effect. Having the option to shoot at higher frame rates would also be good for slomo, but this would be probably be asking too much of a single camera. Are there any video cameras (non-DSLR) out there that eschew the resolution craze in favor of all the other things? Storage space is not cheap, and I’d like to fill mine with more noiseless colors and more frames, not smaller pixels my audience will never see.

I know there is a market of “straight to DVD” movies. So out of curiosity, what cameras are those movies shot on?

While we are at it I have another question: Why are camera manufacturer’s exempt from shipping complete products? Why are individuals and production houses willing to spend large amounts of money with a promise that x feature will be added later via a firmware upgrade? Why do camera manufacturers get to make announcements for products that are still somewhat one the drawing board and people line up to preorder them without ever having held the expensive product in their hands? Sure, people line up for iPhones and iPads, but these are nowhere as expensive. It has become apparent to me that the camera market operates by a completely different set of rules. Why is this and how did this come about?*

* I gave this some thought and it is interesting to note that the airplane jet engine manufacturers enter into contracts with buyers before even starting to build. I guess the same could be said of anything in the construction industry. There is no “production line” and in the case of airplanes and jet engines the list of customers outstrips demand so that customers have to “waitlist”. I guess the high end camera market is the same, more customers than suppliers, and no production line, though you would think you could easily make a production line for high end cameras. Enough blabbering.

on this board, you'll get very profound and professional advice.
not from me - I'm from the other side of the scale, me like "Daddy does movies"

plus, I'm an Apple-head since '86 because its convenience & simplicity, no engineer, I'm not interested in GHz, and 4:2:2, and Bokeh, and GOP. Over the years it was inevitable to get in contact with those … stuff, but I'm no 'pixel peeper' (just learned the word, happy to use it 1st time her :lol: )

So - my philosophy is, with an academic background of 'communications',

Do you really know, what's going on when you push the pedal in your car? What chip in your mobile connects to the next antenna? How your microwave makes 'ping!'?

No, you drive your car like Vettel. You make a romantic phone call to your wife. You eat a nice meal (from the micro? no, impossible!) .......

What I want to say:
You do have reached a certain degree of knowledgability where you have to decide:
Do I really NEED all this info?
What is the info - academic speak ahead - relevance?
Is it info at all, when it has no relevance?!

A Canon 5 Mk III with its FF sensor is nice in terms of DoF - but 4k$ for a hobby?
I'd like to have a Octocopter - for 30min fun, and 2min of 'film' of my garden?
I know, 4:2:2 is 'better' than 4:0:0 - but will my family notice, when I record free-hand under he christmas tree?

put it upside-down: What can YOU not accomplish with a 199$ device?

It's nice to have options - but 90% options I never use. 95%.
My real life limits are not enough skill, talent, time and wallet size.
Not hardware.

My first 'HD' cam was a Lumix FZ38, limited, cheap, but a 'brave' tool.
My latest a Pana hcv707, for 380€ - I know, consumer stuff.
But I'm USING it!
… And offering the options, I need. Really need.

btw:
the chip of the latest MiniBlackMagic offers 9 f-stops more than mine.
But is half the size of mine - happy DoF! (do I need DoF with a super mobile 'action'cam anyhow? goPro says no! )


my 5¢ .......

I think that Karsten advice whilst (with all due respect Karsten) not very sexy is very down to earth and sound

So continuing in Karstens vein. Kind of…


Get yourself a little camera.

By all means a great little camera.

And find out where its limits are.

Then get a great medium camera.

And find out where its limits are.

Then get a great big camera.

And find out where its limits are.


Sooner or later it all becomes over kill anyway.


I am a little bit of a Hi- Fi buff in my spare time.

A friend and I, do off the wall stuff like listen to different power cables.

I kid you not. Overkill?



Now if any Sane person were to eves drop they would think we completely insane.

Maybe we are mad but we have been tweaking our Stereo systems for 20 years.

Literally one nut or bolt at a time!


And we reckon that we can hear the difference.

Precisely because we took it one bolt at a time.

The joke is that 99% of other people do not hear the difference.

I´ve had guests in my house asking me to turn the volume of the Music down.

Claiming that it was too loud. It was not loud! Hand on heart.

They were just overwhelmed by the sheer spectrum of the Music coming from something other than a MP3 player!



There is a wonderful little book translated from the German.

www.amazon.com/First-You-Have-Little-Boat/dp/0446670030

You are not the only "hobbyist" that reads this web site. I have learned so much from all the members here it is not funny. Up until a year ago I only used windows based machines. I got hurt at work and was no longer able to follow my passions. So I bought a Mac Mini back in May. I found this neat little demo software called FCP X. Well that was all it took. I got out my old Canon DV tapes and Imported them into FCP X. I now have a hobby that I can do again. Well one thing led to another and I bought a 13 inch 2012 MBP, put 16GB,s of ram into it. Next was a full version of FCP X and Motion 5.

Now that I have been bitten by the FCP X bug I have bought dedicated HDD's for my events and projects to live on. Now comes the "I want a new camera part". I know I can never make videos like some of the people here but I also want to be able to try. I am looking into a couple of the canon DSLR's. VS Camcorders. It is hard to want Prosumer equipment on a Consumer budget.

paurray wrote: … They were just overwhelmed by the sheer spectrum of the Music coming from something other than a MP3 player! …

I once had such an 'enlightenment' too, when a friend (practicing HiFi-Voodoo as you ) demoed his 20k€ set-up - indeed: breathtaking!

but .....

it's 'playback', it's about reproduction of someone else's art (I was soooo disappointed, how MoMa/NY presents one-of-a-kind art! terrible light ....) - when it's about 'camera'. we talk about CREATION, making things.

and, imho!, 90% fail, by believing the best tool allows them to create excellent things.

ever saw a sculptor at work?
a hammer, a chisel, stone - incredible 'raw' instruments!
creating stuff like The David ....

I've seen too many people using 'the best' devices, creating just for the trash-bin.

best-of-all - that actual 'instagram look':
light leaks, cross processing, dust, grain, mono color ...

=> everything, what was a terrible error just a few years ago, is now added - to 8k-Red Epic-Zeiss f0.8-280mbps-raw-recordings ... :woohoo: :silly: :lol:

or, just watch 99% amateur 'tests' on YouTube:
the mandatory free hand pan from the balcony ....
proofing what?
wallet size, not talent.

booooo, that was grumpy and un-sexy .... LOL!

(and Thanks for the book recommendation)

Interesting article on the C100 vs 4K by Cinematographer Ryan E. Walters.

nofilmschool.com/2013/05/1080p-better-4k...chool+(NoFilmSchool)

Simon might find this interesting, I know he'd mentioned the new BlackMagic 4k as tempting...