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Going down the youtube drain 31 Dec 2015 03:43 #71842

Hi Grendel,

I just discovered this discussion and was intrigued by the comments so thought I'd jump in too. Having watched your Lake Mungo Revisited video I'll add my observations if you don't mind. By way of background, I too am a beginner and a hobbyist

The overall impression Lake Mungo left me with was positive: good strong images and appropriate music. Like Manoucho, Karsten and Ben have mentioned I agree it was too long. I know it's tough to edit something that's obviously made a real impression on you but sometimes it's necessary to 'kill your darlings'.

You could try a short version and keep the long version that feels complete to you. In the short version, ask yourself with every clip "does this image help tell the story?" If the answer isn't a strong yes perhaps because the image already has its information covered in a previous shot leave it out. The result of this approach will be to shorten and tighten up your film.

Early on you use subtitles to set up the background story. Since there is quite a lot to say about this location consider using a voice over. Reading subtitles takes attention away from the effectiveness of your film.

A few specifics. First, too much Ken Burns. With so much zooming in and out and panning around your images I was getting dizzy. Unless the effect to reveals something specific to enhance your story I'd leave it out. Your images are strong enough that they don't need, or benefit from, moving around.

Using the rule of thirds has been mentioned before and that's good advice. In situations where you have a person or animal in the frame and they aren't looking at or moving toward the camera it's usually best to position them to give them room to look or move into. Applying the rule of thirds they'd typically have ⅔ of the image ahead of them. If you position them so their attention is focussed out of frame you make me want to see what's out there. I saw this effect in some of your images but then you left me hanging when you didn't show me what was there.

Be careful of zooming in too much and degrading your image quality. Unless the particular image is really crucial for your story it's best not to do that. Similarly, when the quality of your images is high as yours are, out of focus images are best relegated to the cutting room floor. For example, the black and yellow lizard in someone's hand are fuzzy. Since you aren't telling the story of catching the local fauna I'd leave those out.

The abandoned buildings, particularly the B&W images, are interesting but would be better as a separate film or so it seems to me. The juxtaposition with the rest of the film didn't seem logical. To me it seemed like you have 2 films here as it did to Karsten.

A question about your ending. Why was there a colour change and the mirage (wavy) effect on the Suzy clip? It was an interesting effect and I liked it but it didn't tie into the rest of film for me.

So, I liked this film and think with some tough editing you'll have a more appealing and impactful video. Maybe you'll even get the numbers you were hoping for on You Tube. Keep in mind the old adage: leave them wanting more.

Good grief - I didn't intend to carry on babbling this long! Just my opinions - I hope they're of some use to you.
Ed

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Going down the youtube drain 04 Feb 2016 05:04 #72899

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Hi mate,

I too missed this reply, mea culpa.

I found myself agreeing with everything you said, I couldn't fault your critic (I tried ... Hehee)

Thank you ... Especially for the time it must have taken to consider it all.

I'm not really chasing viewers. To be honest I try to tell a story but I'm crap at it so far. Here's proof. There are two videos of Lake Mungo. The first one, made with windows movie maker, I positively knew I could do better once I could afford Fcp and the imac. I went back and rephotographed, camped there, took my time at composing shots ... And come back with some great shots.

But try as I might, I just couldn't get back what those few (20 only I think) photos on the previous trip had captured.

The story is supposed to be about the mismanagement of that land. The government divided it up into small sheep stations and gave it to returning soldiers from the war. The land was marginal (meaning on the fringe of sustainability) and soldiers aren't sheep farmers. The land, covered in cypress forest, was cut down. There were no materials available after the war.. There are over 10,000 trees in Mungo Station Woolshed alone.

The land desertified and is as you se it today. The total wool yield over the entire span of sheep period was only a few million pounds but the land was destroyed forever. It had been occupied by the Aboriginal for over 50,000 years, and in good seasons was a inland tropical paradise. It had been slowly drying out over 1000s of years ... But sheep, goats and axes were it's death knell.

As you can see I failed to tell this story. The two stations, Zanci and Mungo, are in the story because they became the conglomerates as each small station failed. They were last two to yield to the advancing desert.

Cheers Greg

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Going down the youtube drain 18 May 2016 06:50 #76869

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Hi Peoples,

If any of the advisors to this thread are still around then get your pencils and notepads and start critiqing in earnest.

This is my latest vid ... And I have taken notice of the above advice

This Vid;

Mostly made with iPhone
Audio recorded at night when the wind had dropped and then dubbed on later

The Shell

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Last edit: by Grendel.

Going down the youtube drain 18 May 2016 08:41 #76874


Mostly made with iPhone

The Shell


AWESOME!
... a video-poem.. very, very nice done!

But you asked for critqué, so:
~min 2.. no zoom in on!, I think, a clean cut does it better
~min 3.15 have you tried Optical Flow for that super slowmo?
~min 4 - why that effect? imho, doesn't fit to the rest... no needed
~min 5:20 ... don't do 'Vacuum cleaner pans' (back'n forth, back'n forth), stay with your slowmo stuff

surprising end, great! ~min 6, would be better (but close to impossible to accomplish) with a video, not a still
4:50 looks like from some sciencefiction movie!

very, very, very nice!

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Going down the youtube drain 18 May 2016 10:08 #76877

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I have just watched the Tibuurra video, loved the music, just a few comments with regard to editing, the ken burns on every shot, you can get away with doing this, if you use the technique in the right way.

Zoom in and out are only 2 of many options, pan and scan is one other option, as you have shown, you have used both the zoom in/out and pan/scan left and right.

It is the speed that is important, having only still photographs at a high resolution say 4K, then editing in 1080i, this gives you the ability to use ken burns in creative ways, for example, start in 1 point, pan, zoom in, then pan again, watch this ripple video..


This next video is about creating 3D in a photo, it would would work in some scenes, the pub scenes, give it a bit of life, the 2nd pub scene with the sport on the tv, do a screen replacement with some stock footage, action in a static scene, brings life to the photo!!


That is the power of digital, we can do things now not really possible all those years ago, what I loved was the use of sound effects, with the lightning, very clever.

One very important thing I need to stress, use objects in a scene as a anchor,the scene where you are outside of a pub, there is a man walking to the pub, you zoom out, he disappears, like a ghost, maybe try a pan right to him from screen left, then a hold frame, see above video, then a zoom out. this way it may mask his absence from the 2nd photo!!

Overall it was a great video, well done, this last video ken burns on steroids, I think is really just the advice you need...


3 great videos for you to watch, digest, consider.. Ken Burns has many great aspects if you use them creatively!

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Going down the youtube drain 18 May 2016 11:34 #76879

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AWESOME!
... a video-poem.. very, very nice done!

.

Hehhheee .... Ok, so that's a big improvement. Thank you.
.

you asked for critqué, so:
~min 2.. no zoom in on!, I think, a clean cut does it better
.

I didn't think anyone would notice that .. cuz I don't start the zoom until the wave explodes ...
.

~min 3.15 have you tried Optical Flow for that super slowmo?
.

No? Where do I get it?
.

~min 4 - why that effect? imho, doesn't fit to the rest... no needed

.

That was my attempt to 'produce' a visualisation of the words 'Bubbling seaweeds as the waters go, swish to and fro' ... so I turned the 'froth' on the water into seaweed. Or at least I thought I had.
.

~min 5:20 ... don't do 'Vacuum cleaner pans' (back'n forth, back'n forth), stay with your slowmo stuff

.

Bummer ... I kinda liked those shots. Also the the iPhone has a fault. It tries to adjust it's lighting levels constantly as you pan and this causes flicker.
.

4:50 looks like from some sciencefiction movie!

.

Thats real, unaltered video, exactly as you see it .. but taken with the Canon 5D. There is clearly a difference between the two ... but unfortunately the 5D doesn't do slo-mo.
.

surprising end, great! ~min 6, would be better (but close to impossible to accomplish) with a video, not a still


very, very, very nice!

.

Thank you very very very muchly Karsten. :woohoo:

Greg

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Last edit: by Grendel.

Going down the youtube drain 18 May 2016 12:01 #76880

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I have just watched the Tibuurra video, loved the music, just a few comments with regard to editing, the ken burns on every shot, you can get away with doing this, if you use the technique in the right way.

Zoom in and out are only 2 of many options, pan and scan is one other option, as you have shown, you have used both the zoom in/out and pan/scan left and right.

It is the speed that is important, having only still photographs at a high resolution say 4K, then editing in 1080i, this gives you the ability to use ken burns in creative ways, for example, start in 1 point, pan, zoom in, then pan again, watch this ripple video..

This next video is about creating 3D in a photo, it would would work in some scenes, the pub scenes, give it a bit of life, the 2nd pub scene with the sport on the tv, do a screen replacement with some stock footage, action in a static scene, brings life to the photo!!

That is the power of digital, we can do things now not really possible all those years ago, what I loved was the use of sound effects, with the lightning, very clever.

One very important thing I need to stress, use objects in a scene as a anchor,the scene where you are outside of a pub, there is a man walking to the pub, you zoom out, he disappears, like a ghost, maybe try a pan right to him from screen left, then a hold frame, see above video, then a zoom out. this way it may mask his absence from the 2nd photo!!

Overall it was a great video, well done, this last video ken burns on steroids, I think is really just the advice you need...

3 great videos for you to watch, digest, consider.. Ken Burns has many great aspects if you use them creatively!

Thank you Ms Justine.

You are the only person who liked Tibooburra. Thank you for the kind remarks on the lightening effects ... it took me bloody hours for just a few seconds and most people just think 'so what' ... heheee

I will now sit down, make a coffee and watch your videos. The best thing for me about this forum is that it's so objective, pulls no punches, and I really do learn from it. So when I get kind remarks here they really do mean something.

Thank you for the time.

Greg :cheer:

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Last edit: by Grendel.

Going down the youtube drain 18 May 2016 12:12 #76881

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The lighting scene was by far the best, with the dog barking, very creative, made me jump, I think you really should subscribe to ripple training on youtube, they have so many great video tutorials, ideas that will make your work more exciting.

FCP.co is a great forum, there is nothing on the interwebs like it, and I read a comment about vimeo, that is a great video hosting site, professionals use it quite a bit.

Try your hand at timelapse, there is a great video
about how to use timelapse in FCPX, timelapse is a great visual tool, and would be great with a few of the panoramic shots of the desert!!

FCPX is extremely useful for making creative shots, I hope that you find the ripple training youtube site useful, I cannot count how many references there are to ripple training in these forums..If Ripple got 1cent for every mention, they would be quite wealthy..Steve and Mark have such a passion for video making, post production, and for FCPX in the main.

Choosing FCPX is by far the best NLE out there, I am so glad you have found it useful, and I really hope that you find many ideas from the youtube site..FCP.co+Ripple Training, all the advice you can ever need!!!

When I run into a problem, sure as anything, within minutes there is a reply and often guess what..A ripple video tutorial... :P :blush:

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Going down the youtube drain 18 May 2016 12:44 #76883

…Optical Flow for that super slowmo
Where do I get it?…

help.apple.com/finalcutpro/mac/10.2/?lang=en#/ver40b00150
Smooth out a slowmo ...

for a test, I used it to the extreme:


(my son hates it when I post his jump :woohoo: )

this is original 100fps recording, ramped in FCPX down to 2%, plus OF = 5000fps ... theoretically ;)

The second one is 60fps in a 25 timeline, 50% slowmo => not enough 'inbetweens' for OF, therefor tons of 'wobble'....

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Last edit: by Karsten Schlüter.

Going down the youtube drain 18 May 2016 16:57 #76899

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Good day mate
Re-read all the topic and watched the videos again.
You really have a great eye, lots of drama.
I'll let stand earlier comments and agree with most others. Shorten as much as possible. Rule of thirds is good and many cameras even have a built in grid for just that purpose. Check your settings. Many great articles, tutorials on the whys and hows available on the internet.

Want to add something that really struck me.
In the LM/2 Stations movie, sorry to say you really missed the mark. I really want you to consider doing a narration. Your comments mostly to Karsten on Dec13th really, REALLY needs to be told. That is the story. Do it with a voice over. If not you, prepare a script and find someone with a great voice.
I'm a environmentalist/ecologist by day, now mostly retired and video/photographer by passion, so I know about "desertification" and as soon as I saw the sheep sheds and the native round timbers, I could guess the story. But I'm trained in that way of thinking. Have studied the issue. But for others, they will totally miss out that that area supported humans/flora/fauna for 50,000 years until modern concentrated agriculture totally messed it up.
What you said in your comments here, needs your voice on the video. I learned so much more about the particulars from those paragraphs. I would be so interested in the video with the history told while the photographs were showing. The impact to the photos is so much greater when you know the context. Then the length would be no detriment.
I want to hear more of the story!
There are many NGOs environmental groups that would want to use/show this if it is narrated.
Really, Please tell this story, the world needs to hear it.
This is an ongoing environmental issue.

The one shot I would edit is where the car is showing on left of shed. Detracts from the image/story by being out of place, in IMHO.
There are a couple of other things I would do different, but believe in your own abilities.

In "The Shell" we see the ability of the "moving pictures" over straight photographs that move. Holds your interests more. You are bringing your great eye and drama to video work. Yea! I liked it.
Personally, I would shorten the clip where you quote the poem "Then I picked up the shell…" and hold the text over thru the transition into the waves where "…the slow and sad murmur of far distant seas." Would allow enough time to read the words while strengthening the story.
Can't say I agree with the sweetness of hearing cars on the street, but then again I hate cars!
Greg, I really like your eye/vision for the dramatic. Keep up the good work.

Hope this helps, Greg

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Going down the youtube drain 20 May 2016 06:41 #76946

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Good day mate
Re-read all the topic and watched the videos again.

Want to add something that really struck me.
In the LM/2 Stations movie, sorry to say you really missed the mark. Keep up the good work.

Hope this helps, Greg
Hi Mate.

Firstly: Thanx for a great rap re the videos. I read your post soon after you posted it. I have taken the time to digest it and I have made up my mind to do lakeM a third time.

You are so right when you say I missed the mark. And it is also right that I need a voice over rather than text which is a distracting sort of thing anyway.

It always takes me a few months or more to do a vid, so don't expect a quick response. But I will redo it and I will tell the story one way or another.

Thank you for making me see it.

Greg

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