Keyframing problem with compound clip

Hi! I'm not sure what is going on...

I need to make a little animation. Nothing complicated, it's for a theatre show and it will be projected to a wall approximately 120 x 140 cm of size.

So, I created a project with dimensions 1200 x 1400. 

In another app, I prepared 12 animation frames — a rocket with animated flames. I imported them to the FCP project and placed them to the timeline. Each image is one frame, so the animation loop is repeated twice every second. So far, everything is good, the animation looks great.

The rocket needs to launch while the flames are animated. So I copy&pasted the frames til I had 10 seconds worth of animation. Then I turned those frames into a compound clip. The compound clip works fine.

Next, I wanted to keyframe the compound clip, moving the rocket over the screen. I created the first keyframe in the beginning of the clip and the second keyframe to the end of the clip (where the cursor position was one frame removed from the exact end of the clip, of course).

To my surprise, Final Cut did not move the whole rocket animation over the screen. Instead, the position changed back to the starting point twice a second, as if the app was somehow aware of the fact that inside the compound clip I had the same 12 images copy&pasted multiple times.

Without keyframes, I can position the compound clip wherever I want — the animation works fine. But keyframing the position for the exact same clip isn't working.

What am I missing?

Thanks in advance for any ideas!


iMac 2019 (Retina 5K, Intel i9 8-core, 64GB)
MacOS Big Sur 11.6
Final Cut Pro 10.6.1

The only animation happening in the original should be the flames. Where the flames meet the rocket should be the center point of the frame. Make it as long or even a bit longer than you want the final animation. Then compound that animation and keyframe its movement as wanted.

anickt wrote:

The only animation happening in the original should be the flames. Where the flames meet the rocket should be the center point of the frame. Make it as long or even a bit longer than you want the final animation. Then compound that animation and keyframe its movement as wanted.

Thank you for the quick answer!

Unfortunately, I still don't understand...

I made a simple test. I made 8 new TIF-images: a beach ball spinning around its middle point. I put those 8 images to the timeline (one frame each), copied that a few times and turned them all into a compound clip. Then I keyframed the compound clip. The first frame Y position -1200 and the last frame Y position 1200.

The same thing happens again: the compound clip position "starts over" every eighth frame, and I see only a glimpse of the beach ball every time.

When I play it, the compound clip Y position value changes logically, steadily from -1200 to 1200. But the whole thing LOOKS like as if the value goes suddenly back to --1200 every eighth frame.

What does it matter to FCP, what is inside the compound clip? I don't get it.

The anchor point can't be the issue here. And I really don't see, how it could have been the point?

Sorry, maybe I'm a bit thick-headed, but this just doesn't make any sense. I'm pretty sure that I have made much more elaborate animations in the past, and I have never noticed anything like this.

At the moment, I don't have any screen video capturing apps — but I could find and install one, if you think it might help to see what I am doing.

Hopefully, you'll have a bit more patience with me!

I would try breaking apart clip items (to get rid of the compound clip), quitting Final Cut Pro, restarting your computer, open everything back up and then make a new compound clip and try again. If that doesn't work, get rid of your two keyframes, put the compound clip into another compound clip and animate that one.

I'm sorry, really quick: Can I attach a small video file to my message? Do I use the .zip format? I can't see any basic video formats in the approved file extensions list.

I would very much like to demonstrate my problem, but I don't really have any means to adequately describe it. This video might clarify the situation.

If it’s just to view it might be simplest to post in YouTube or Vimeo.

Thank you for your answers and patience!

After rebooting my computer twice, I made a totally new library, event and project. I imported 8 TIF images: a simple "beach ball" in 8 different angles.

I put them into the timeline. Each image a single frame. I copied that 8 frame sequence just once. This is the simplest animation I can think of.

Take a look at the video, watch it til the very end. Please tell me — what am I missing? I really hope this is just a silly mistake I keep repeating.

You’re not applying your keyframes to the compound clip properly. In the video you added them at several different positions on the timeline.

Clear all of the keyframes applied to the compound clip. Then place the playhead at the beginning of the compound clip, move the ball to the place in the frame you want it to start, create a keyframe, then move the playhead to the end of the cc and move the ball to the end position you want. A keyframe will automatically be created.

The thing to understand is once you have created a keyframe, moving the playhead and then moving the object will automatically create another keyframe at that time and position. 

A quick way to check if by chance you created additional keyframes is to reveal the video animation pane by selecting the compound and pressing control-v. If you only have one keyframe at the start and one at the end then I would say you most likely discovered a bug. If you have additional keyframe(s) somewhere in-between (specially the point where the ball jumps back down) then you're adding them yourself.
For me though it looks like a bug. Only workaround is to export the compound with the animation before the position animation, reimport and animate.
Another thing to test is to use a normal clip and try to animate that. If you get unexpected jumps I think you somehow adding keyframes (can't see how though in your video) .

It’s not a bug.

At around :44 you create a second keyframe with the ball at the bottom of the frame. Then you move the ball up. That creates a third keyframe automatically.

After creating the first keyframe you should then move the playhead to the time where you want the ball to be at the top and then move the ball to the top. A keyframe will be created automatically.

In your video you: 1. create a keyframe manually, 2. move the playhead and create a keyframe manually without having moved the ball, 3. move the ball up (3rd keyframe created automatically). You have created 3 keyframes in total.

Looking at the keyframe editor will not help so much because the second and third keyframes were created at the same position on the timeline.

Turn on transform mode and use the arrows on the upper left to step through the keyframes or use the arrows in the inspector. You will see that there are 3 when there should only be 2.

Okay, I just realized that my last message didn't even get here. I know I wrote it and clicked "Submit". I wonder what happened there...

I made another video. This time, as clear as I was able. Notice three things:

1) After I have made the two keyframes, moving the playhead moves the ball exactly right. But when I click "Play", the ball moves differently — and after that, moving the playhead moves the ball differently too! When I change the places of the keyframes, moving the playhead again moves the ball as expected — but click "Play", and the strange behaviour returns.

2) When I click "Play", the Y position value increases steadily. Yet the ball starts from the initial place half-way through.

3) After I have changed the place of a keyframe, the Y position value shows nothing.

How is this not a bug?

I have done dozens of this type of animation and never had an issue. What version FCPX? I am stuck on 10.4 so maybe that’s why I’ve never seen it. 

Have you tried resetting FCP prefs? Weird behavior is sometimes a result of subtly corrupt preferences. Hold command and option when launching FCP, then choose Delete Preferences. It will open the default Untitled library. Re-open the library you were working on, set the prefs the way you like, and see if the problem has been resolved.

Resetting prefs per TerryB is a good idea. Also, try using the arrow keys in the inspector to step through your keyframes. This definitely will show whether or not there are any extra keyframes. Also, delete render files. You could be seeing a previous render. I have seen that happen occasionally. 

My FCP version number is 10.6.1, which I mentioned in my first post. I'm still on Big Sur, not on Monterey — how likely do you think that could be the cause of the problems?

I myself have made dozens of animations similar to this, and I have never encountered anything like this. Granted, they were on earlier versions of FCP and MacOS.

But isn't it peculiar that the glitches happen exactly on the frames where the 8 image sequence starts all over again? I've been wondering, if that could have anything to do with the problem, but I haven't figured out what it could be. I mean, the movement starts from the original position on the exact frame where we see image number 1 again.

And this phenomenon does not happen solely with the Y position value. I also tested this by changing the scale value. Same thing.

Here's yet another video. I reset FCP preferences, started a brand new library & event & project with different names. I made new TIFF images in a different application. This time I videoed the procedure from the point where I put the images into the timeline — after that, I press ctrl+d and input 0 0 01 to change the duration of all the images into 1 frame.

Next, you can witness me battling with another strange glitch: the Zoom tool isn't working properly. First, I try to just click the timeline a few times with the Zoom tool — nothing happens. Then I try to select the area — at least a dozen times, and occasionally clicking the timeline again. Finally I change the zoom level in the timeline view menu on the right.

I copy the image sequence on the timeline. Then I make the compound clip and so on. This time I even switched on the OSC in the viewer.

It's the same behaviour, once again. With freshly reset FCP, with a new library and everything, with totally new images.

Earlier, I also tried bringing every image to the timeline one by one. First, images 1 to 8 and then again images 1 to 8. Same results.

The only consistent thing: the glitch happens on the frame that has the image number 1 again. But what does FCP care about what is in each frame? After all, there are no keyframed values in those images / frames that are inside the compound clip. Or if there were, wouldn't they be exactly the same values in each image? What is so special about the image 1 when it comes after the image 8?

Yep that's a bug
Report it to Apple and in the meantime make a self contained movie from the timeline with the single images, reimport and animate.
As for the zoom tool having no effect I would say yes technically that might be a mini bug but you could also say that the zoom level is so far out that the tool has nothing 'to work with'.. But again sometimes you safe a lot of time by using what works, which in this case is to simple press Shift-Z to scale to fit, instead to keep trying what doesn't. Software is never perfect

Carsten Orlt wrote:

Yep that's a bug
Report it to Apple and in the meantime make a self contained movie from the timeline with the single images, reimport and animate.
As for the zoom tool having no effect I would say yes technically that might be a mini bug but you could also say that the zoom level is so far out that the tool has nothing 'to work with'.. But again sometimes you safe a lot of time by using what works, which in this case is to simple press Shift-Z to scale to fit, instead to keep trying what doesn't. Software is never perfect

Thanks for the tip. I haven't memorized all the shortcuts — that one certainly will be handy!

Yeah, I guess I'll report this then. Naturally, I have already "moved on". I rendered the animation into its own movie and added that to the main project — exactly as you said. The whole thing needed to be finished this weekend, so I couldn't have waited any longer. Luckily there was this workaround.

I continued this discussion merely with future prospects in mind. If this problem persists, it will be a huge pain in the butt. I will probably consider using Premiere or something — it's just that Premiere isn't as nifty as FCP in the projects of this type.

Also, I will need to check if it would be safe to switch to Monterey now... I have a bunch of complex music apps, and it takes forever for the software firms to ensure that there are no compatibility issues.

In fact, I didn't have the latest version of FCP either, when I started this latest animation project. I only updated it because of this glitch. And as we now know, that didn't help at all.

Big thanks to everyone for the suggestions! Too bad no solution was found, but such is life.

I hear you. And yes sometimes I get stuck in a problem too wondering if there is a way around it. When I have some time I might try your workflow and will report if I find anything.
As for FCP and general system Monterey is super safe and stable for me. Don't use any specialty audio apps though.

I think I read somewhere about a zoom bug in the latest FCP version. You seem to have found another. I’ll stick with 10.4 for now. 😆

PS I just did 2 quick tests with 4 png and 4 gif images and did exactly what you did and can confirm that your bug happens here too.
And I'm on all the latest updates of Monterey and FCP, Motion and Compressor.
Will play with it