Huge Clip Drag Lag under 10.3.4, Sierra 10.12.6 Help!

Help!

FCPX 10.3.4
OS Sierra 10.12.6'iMac late 2014, 27" i7, 32GB DDR3 RAM, AMD Radeon R9 M295X
Thunderbolt connected external HD

This has been an issue for quite a while. As you can see, the lag is so bad that this makes work almost impossible...



Note that I cannot upgrade to High Sierra as yet because I also produce audio and can't afford to upgrade Pro Tools just yet.

I have searched the entire forum for threads with "lag" in the title and nothing like this has come up. So I am not too hopeful for a fix... but any help would be greatly appreciated.

A few questions:

-How long and complex is your timeline?

-How many Libraries do you currently have open in Final Cut?

OK that was only a couple of questions. I'd try closing all of the Libraries you're not using, quitting Final Cut (actually maybe even rebooting the computer) and try again.

Quite long (90 min) and complex....
Hadn't thought to do a comparison with a smaller project.
Lag nowhere near as bad on a small 5 min timeline.

Quitting, closing libraries etc makes no difference. Looks like it's time to upgrade my mac.... damn!

Be sure your Libraries and media are on a secondary, very fast drive, not the system drive.
Be sure your system drive has at least 15-20 percent of its total capacity left as free space at all time.
Turn off background rendering, and delete all render files.

tj7 wrote: ...
FCPX 10.3.4
OS Sierra 10.12.6'iMac late 2014, 27" i7, 32GB DDR3 RAM, AMD Radeon R9 M295X... the lag is so bad that this makes work almost impossible....

There was a known "drag lag" problem in FCPX 10.3.1 which happened under certain conditions. It was reported as fixed in 10.3.2, but some saw this in later versions. www.fcp.co/fcp-forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-f...0-3-issues?start=120

I have not seen this on 10.4.x.

Is it this way for ALL your FCPX projects or is just this one being stubborn?

I'm thinking the problem could be your video card, not necessarily the computer or the OS. High Sierra here on 2009 Mac Pro 8 cores with Radeon RX 580 8gb graphic cards and they don't behave like this. Everything is frisky and snappy, even with 4K assets.

FCPX.guru wrote: Be sure your Libraries and media are on a secondary, very fast drive, not the system drive.
Be sure your system drive has at least 15-20 percent of its total capacity left as free space at all time.
Turn off background rendering, and delete all render files.

Quick dumb question. Will deleting all render files impact on any of the work I've done?
ie I am worried about losing or undoing.... anything really.... which will bite me in the bum later...

Deleting render files only deletes render files, nothing else gets effected. Perfectly safe.

Speaking of drives, maybe uncheck “put drives to skeep when possible” in system preferences. I know this helps when working in Logic X. Fwiw. Thats in the energy saving preference.

It's reasonable to check the hard drive but the previously-reported "drag lag" issues were not I/O-based. You can check for this by watching the I/O parameters in Activity Monitor when doing a slow drag operation. If it's not doing many I/Os during that action, then a faster drive won't help.

The OP is on Sierra (not High Sierra) and FCPX 10.3.4 so it's easily possible this problem is already fixed. He can't upgrade to Mojave because of Pro Tools. However -- he *can* create a Mojave boot disk and test that with the latest FCPX version. This does not interfere with his current Sierra and FCPX 10.3.4 version. He will need a bootable external drive, ideally a fast one.

Once booted into Mojave on that external drive, he can install FCPX 10.4.5 then try his scenario. If the problem is fixed there's no need to waste time on disk drives, etc. If the problem still happens only then is deeper inspection needed.

Here is the procedure:

www.online-tech-tips.com/mac-os-x/instal...external-hard-drive/

> Libraries and media are on a secondary, very fast drive, not the system drive.

Yes, as per original post, I run an external via thunderbolt.

> Be sure your system drive has at least 15-20 percent of its total capacity left as free space at all time.

Yes, routinely. No probs there...

>Turn off background rendering, and delete all render files.

Done and done. Made literally no difference.

> uncheck “put drives to sleep when possible”

Never have had this selected.

>Is it this way for ALL your FCPX projects or is just this one being stubborn?

It’s not as much of a problem with smaller projects.
this is one is feature length and given that nothing else
I have tried (see above) has made any difference at all, then
I believe this is a case of - need to upgrade my mac.
Need to win the lottery first… ha.

> he *can* create a Mojave boot disk and test that with the latest FCPX version.

That’s true, but I don’t welcome the major hassle associated with backing up, reformatting and repartitioning my hard disk just to test this theory out. That’s a major bloody undertaking.
Thanks for the suggestion, though, I will keep it in mind for next time I do a total clean-up!

I tell ya though.... this is bad. Real bad. I'm talking 3-4 *seconds* of waiting after dragging even just a photo into the timeline in this project. It's... it's terrible.

tj7 wrote: ... I don’t welcome the major hassle associated with backing up, reformatting and repartitioning my hard disk just to test this theory out. That’s a major bloody undertaking.
Thanks for the suggestion, though, I will keep it in mind for next time I do a total clean-up!

Having good backups is always a good idea, but you don't need to clean anything up or change anything on your current computer or hard drive. You only need an additional hard drive or bootable USB thumb drive to install Mojave and FCPX 10.4.5 on. Then you hold the OPT key when booting and select that drive.

For systems with USB-C a good choice is the Samsung T5: www.amazon.com/dp/B073GZBT36/

Your 2014 iMac doesn't have USB-C so you could use a fast USB 3.0 thumb drive like this one: www.amazon.com/dp/B01G26T9UW/

Or you can use any SATA SSD drive by using this cable: www.amazon.com/dp/B00HJZJI84/

A 512GB Samsung EVO 860 is only $79: www.amazon.com/dp/B0781Z7Y3S/

If you boot from the external Mojave drive, start FCPX 10.4.5, then access your older FCPX library, it will upgrade that. You should make a copy of it or back that up beforehand so your Sierra/FCPX 10.3x setup can access it afterward.

Thanks @joema. This seems worth trying.

Q1: "If you boot from the external Mojave drive, start FCPX 10.4.5, then access your older FCPX library, it will upgrade that." Ok, so this means that once I open a library via Mojave, that library can't be opened via my Sierra set up - ie I must have separate library versions for each OS? I figured but just checking.

Note - The last time I tried to upgrade FCPX from my current (I forget which version I tried), the new FCPX version opened just fine but it got stuck halfway through trying to update my library. Thank god I had backed it up. I presumed since then that my current library is stuck with my current config. and have been wary of upgrading anything at all, really. That botched library upgrade scared me a bit, backups or no.

Q2: If I'm to spend around $80-100 on something external to work with and trial Mojave etc, I'd want bang for buck and to be able to use that drive for an FCPX library. Problem is, there appears to be literally no budget external HD that is 7200rpm. They are all apparently 5400, not so great for FCPX. So I wonder - what's the point - even if it works, I'd be running a drive so slow as to make editing difficult anyway.... research tells me 7200 vs 5400 does make a big difference... I mean I will find a way of trialing this but these hurdles are worth noting....or not?

I'd rather shoot myself in the face than use a 5400rpm drive...

tj7 wrote: ... so this means that once I open a library via Mojave, that library can't be opened via my Sierra set up - ie I must have separate library versions for each OS? I figured but just checking...

It's not dependent on the OS version but the FCPX version. Once you open a 10.3.x library in 10.4.x, you can't open it in 10.3.x, no matter what version of macOS.

For this reason (among others) it's a good idea to have file-level backups of libraries, which is greatly facilitated by using "lean libraries" where the cache, proxies and media are stored externally.

tj7 wrote: ... If I'm to spend around $80-100 on something external to work with and trial Mojave etc, I'd want bang for buck and to be able to use that drive for an FCPX library. Problem is, there appears to be literally no budget external HD that is 7200rpm. They are all apparently 5400, not so great for FCPX...what's the point - even if it works, I'd be running a drive so slow as to make editing difficult anyway...

A 512GB SATA SSD is only $79. You or a friend might already have a SATA-to-USB 3.0 cable laying around. Those are often given out for free when buying SATA SSDs and laptop upgrade kits. If not, they are about $3: www.amazon.com/dp/B075WY6ZPM/

Your point about a slow spinning drive is valid. Likewise anything but the fastest USB thumb drive will be too slow. For this situation an SSD is best, and a SATA SSD is the cheapest type. I periodically encounter situations where I must boot on an older version of macOS to test something, so I use a small external SSD for that. The drive need not be 100% dedicated to this purpose. MacOS takes about 64GB depending on the config, so when not being used as a boot disk you can put other files on that.

Hi TJ
I wonder if you are using some plug-ins that are causing the issue? It could also be the media clips or formats??
Using certain plug-ins like NeatVideo for noise reduction will really drag down your computer, especially older ones.
Things like noise reduction will reanalyze each and every time you move clips in the timeline. Apply only at very end just prior to export. Turn em off or remove till end if that is the case.
There are some other plug-ins that work the same like some animated VFX or even audio add ins.
You don't say what formats and codecs you are editing??? HD is very different from 4/8K and some codecs do not play nice with FCPX and older hardware; RED anyone? If the media is newer, make sure you have the latest ProApp Updates. Generally includes camera and format drivers.
If it is a corrupted clip, finding can be a bit of a challenge. Split the project in 2, open separately (best in new Library) and see if problem exists in both halves. Rinse and repeat.

You might isolate the issue using Activity Monitor, but that is mostly whole app based, but if you inspect (click the "I" icon and sample) top Memory processes, you might see a file name or plug-in name. While there, look at the Swap Used numbers under the Memory Usage Tab bottom box. High swap numbers indicate low RAM.
Console logs will also show the processes running, but reading logs is an art in itself. The older version of Console is easier than the latest version. Console is in your Utilities Folder.
You might try to run EtreCheck and see if anything pops-up. Free program. Generally good for finding outdated plug-ins. Update any old plug-ins.

Hope this Helps, Greg
Best of Luck
p.s. Be careful updating Libraries. Copy Library to clean external drive and make sure to point FCPX only to that version. Make back ups first!!!

VidGreg wrote: Hi TJ
I wonder if you are using some plug-ins that are causing the issue? It could also be the media clips or formats??
Using certain plug-ins like NeatVideo for noise reduction will really drag down your computer, especially older ones.
Things like noise reduction will reanalyze each and every time you move clips in the timeline. Apply only at very end just prior to export. Turn em off or remove till end if that is the case....

This is a good suggestion. Is the issue related to project complexity (timeline length, # of connected clips, # of edits, etc) or some effect or combination of effects?

An easy way to rule that in/out is make a copy of the project, load it, select all clips in the timeline with CMD+A, then do Edit>Remove Effects. If the problem goes away or dramatically lessens, it's related to some effect. If not it's the project structure.

Likewise, updating to the latest Apple Pro Video Formats (currently 2.1) is a good idea: support.apple.com/kb/DL1988?locale=en_US

Hey great tip Joema…
…select all clips in the timeline with CMD+A, then do Edit>Remove Effects… Super fast way to check!

Personally, my workflow is to "attempt" to do all clip/timeline assembly prior to doing any effects, color corrections, audio enhancement and somewhat even titles. Only after I've committed to final do I "sweeten" the project. So moving clips is fast.
Well at least that is my goal, hee-hee fat chance, but changes are very minor.

Hope the OP updates when you find the solution

Happy Editing, Greg

Running 10.4.5 on latest Mojave on iMac Pro with all the proxy media on the SSD, the drag lag I was experiencing was unbearable. I tried everything suggested; the only thing that works was reducing the size of the timeline. So I split it up into different, shorter, timelines, and now there is little drag lag.

My timeline was probably about 45 minutes FYI.

Hopefully this gets fixed. It wasn't the effects, LUTs, generators or proxy vs original media.