What is best external TB storage for FCPX

Hi,

I am considering a QNAP TVS-1282T3 with 8x 4TB drives in RAID 6 + 4x 1TB SSD in RAID 0 + 2x 128GB M2 SSD cache, connected via TB1 to my 27" iMac 2013. I currently already have the 4TB drives in use elsewhere.

Would this give me an ideal setup, if I used the SSDs for FCPX Libraries that are in use and the RAID 6 for backups and general storage.

OR, should I consider a Promise TB raid enclosure or a LaCie TB box?

I need to decide this month, to get the Australian tax benefit, so a quick response would be much appreciated.

If you need network-attached storage that's optimized for FCPX, I'd recommend Lumaforge products: lumaforge.com/jellyfish/

If direct attached storage is OK, there are many choices. I have several different Thunderbolt RAID enclosures including Promise Pegasus R4. However the one I prefer is the OWC Thunderbay 4, since it uses SoftRAID and doesn't tie you to a specific proprietary RAID format: eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/Exte...ive/OWC/ThunderBay-4

Maybe the least expensive 4-drive SSD RAID would be a Thunderbay 4 Mini with Samsung EVO drives. The enclosure is $349 plus 4 x 1TB Samsung 850s is $1400, or 4 x 2TB is $2800. I have the 8TB config and in RAID-0 it does about 1500 MB/sec read, 1860 MB/sec write: eshop.macsales.com/shop/Thunderbolt/Exte...WC/ThunderBay-4-mini

As I have 2x LaCie 2Big Disk enclosures, currently stuffed with 4x 3TB drives, I am going to see how putting 2TB SSDs will make these perform. At least the SSD purchase will be transferable to other enclosures, such as the OWC or QNAP, or whatever.

Meanwhile, I am still interested in any feedback from anyone that a QNAP TB box.

Cheers,

I have a Promise Pegasus2 R4 filled with 4TB drives in a RAID5 configuration and I've never had any complaints in 4 years. They have super good throughput. For optimum performance, don't do RAID6 unless you have 5 or more drives in the array.

What kind of speed are you getting? How many HDDs?
Thanks.

R4 is a 4 bay unit. I can edit 4K on a 2013 maxed out Mac Pro just fine. I can do 4K multicam pretty well. I don't run any speed test software as those numbers don't matter to me, personally. I only care about the real-word performance I can get. Speed test software doesn't test editing multicams, multiple live media streams, etc.

FCPX.guru wrote: .... Speed test software doesn't test editing multicams, multiple live media streams, etc.

Yes, that is a crucial point. Video editing often requires rapid large sequential I/Os, but not always -- especially with FCPX. When using the Event Browser in filmstrip mode on large libraries, the I/O pattern changes to small (8k or so) random I/Os. Then the disk subsystem becomes limited by I/Os per second, not megabytes per second. I haven't inspected the multicam I/O profile but it also could be different.

This is one reason why the Lumaforge products are so good -- they have figured out the unique I/O characteristics of FCPX and how to prefetch, cache or otherwise optimize serving those. If anyone needs network-attached storage, Lumaforge is the way to go for FCPX.

The Promise Pegasus units are good -- very quiet and well made. They are widely used. The admin utilities are a little complex, and the time to restripe a RAID-5 array at 128KB or smaller is slow. Here are some tests I did of sync rate (IOW restripe time) of various R4 systems: photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-pdz6p2j/0/632a78ee/O/i-pdz6p2j.jpg

However you normally use > 128KB and anybody who deals with complex video editing can figure out the Promise utilities. The list of officially approved drives pretty restrictive, but others will probably work.

After using the Thunderbay series, I overall like those better than the Promise Pegasus. Using RAID-5 via SoftRAID, they are just as fast and it avoids a proprietary lock-in to a specific hardware RAID format. The Pegasus is a little quieter than the Thunderbay 4, but the sound doesn't bother me.

Yeah, in our studios, sound is vital. We do VO recording a LOT and a noisy hard drive can kill that fast. My backup drive is a USB OWC RAID, and noisy as hell. But it is only on when I'm NOT at the studio, for automated backups. There's lots of good RAIDs out there. Find out which ones are noisy, like the OWC (MacSales) lines.

Complex subject, seemingly. I have reached out to Bob Zelin, but hadn't heard back as yet.

My current thoughts, for your feedback:

QNAP 1282T3 If this could be made to store FCPX Libraries, it would seem the most versatile, as it offers TB3 and 10Gb/sec, but if I can't use it for FCPX Libraries, then there is little point in buying it.
Lumaforge Jellyfish seems to be the best of breed, however I still can't get info about it's suitability for a 1-man operation and pricing. I fear that it is better suited for corporate use/wallet!
Promise Pegasus2 R8 would give virtually SSD equivalent speed and is FCPX compatible, but I can't find one with no HDDs, which means that I can't re-deploy existing drives and have to pay for new ones. Apple in Australia sells the Promise, which may mean that I can try one for 14 days keep or return.
LaCie 6Big Disk similar to Pegasus2

I fully intend to upgrade to the newly announced iMac Pro, probably in 1st quarter 2018 - ones initial problems had been identified and ironed out.

Decided to put on hold the purchase of the SSDs, as a large Pegasus2 would give SSD type speed with HDDs, which makes the SSD purchase redundant.

I am going to try to find out more about a small Jellyfish.

On top of it all, I want to make my purchase before the end of the Australian Tax Year at June 30.

I think I am getting a headache!

Quick update:

Just off the phone with Sam Messmer (amazing that I got to speak to Sam directly!). He confirmed that the Jellyfish is an overkill for me and recommended a Promise Pegasus2 over the QNAP.

Look at it this way, you're getting top of the line, enterprise level drives in the Pegasus. And really good through-put speeds. Pricy, but speed, durability, quality. My Lexus has far out lasted my wife's HHR bought at the same time. In the long run, I'm getting more mileage per dollar. That's how I see it.

FCPX.guru wrote: Look at it this way, you're getting top of the line, enterprise level drives in the Pegasus. And really good through-put speeds. Pricy, but speed, durability, quality. My Lexus has far out lasted my wife's HHR bought at the same time. In the long run, I'm getting more mileage per dollar. That's how I see it.

I completely agree with you, which is why I am placing an order with Apple for a Pegasus3 R6 24TB box and a TB3/USB-C to TB adapter cable.

Still think it is a pity that the QNAP couldn't deliver the same function.

I'm not sure, but you may want to shop around, B&H or something may have a better price on the same uint. Or not..

I have an iMac Late 2013 27" i7 Thunderbolt 1 which I use for video editing using FCPX. I intend ordering a Pegasus3 R6 24TB for video editing.

I would like to know of any gotcha's before ordering. I understand I will need an Apple TB1/2 to TB3/USB-C adaptor cable, and may have to install some drivers. I plan on using RAID 6, which will give me approx. 16TB of usable space. I have a Synology DS1815+ which will server as backup target.

Q1: Is the Peg3 R6 a suitable choice?

Q2: Will it work ok on TB1 iMac?

Q3: Anyone have any "real world" experience with this setup? Please share.

Thanks in advance,

Paul

The Pegasus series are excellent products, which is why so many people use them. TB2 and TB1 will interoperate using the same cable. I have used my 2016 MBP via the Apple USB-C(TB3) adapter to my TB2 Thunderbay 4 and it worked fine. I haven't tested it to a TB1 device, but TB1 and TB2 should interoperate: www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQ26QIY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_dp_T2_jePozbA1XCRWB

TB1 can slow down a higher-speed TB2 or TB3 device. My Thunderbay Mini RAID-0 SSD array delivers about 1800 MB/sec on TB2 but if daisy-chained with a TB1 device it slows down to about 1/2 of that. Your R6 in RAID 6 won't deliver that transfer rate so the slowdown (if any) on TB1 should be proportionately less.

If there's any chance you are using RAID 6 because of the concern over a 2nd drive failure during the rebuild phase, this may be less a concern than commonly thought. Robin Harris at ZDNet wrote several articles about the dangers of RAID 5 but they were based on an incorrect understanding of drive error rates: www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQ26QIY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_dp_T2_jePozbA1XCRWB

Q1: Is the Peg3 R6 a suitable choice?
I have an R4 which has run flawlessly for 3 years now.

Q2: Will it work ok on TB1 iMac?
Yes, just fine.

Q3: Anyone have any "real world" experience with this setup? Please share.
I have an R4 on a 2013 Mac Pro tube, and one on a 2015 5K iMac, both run amazingly well.

No drivers needed, just install the Promise utility app. If it comes RAID 5 by default, which I think it does, leave it alone, use as is, it'll be fine. Get a cheap USB (1, 2, 3 doesn't matter) RAID as backup.

Thanks guys.

Most people recommend RAID 6 if the array is over 5 drives. My Synology has 7 drives in the main box and 5 in the expansion box. I had recently 2 drives with messages with SMART failure and warning to replace them, which I did. A rebuild can take between 24 to 48 hrs per disk (the Promise may be faster?), and I don't fancy a 2nd failure in that time frame and loss of all data. Even if it is backed up, as a full restore over my 1Gb LAN runs at 1TB per 24 hrs(!).

I am looking forward to consolidating my HDD storage boxes. Currently I have a DS1815+ with an expansion box, a DS412+ and a Netgear ReadyNAS Pro, plus 2x LaCie 2big Disk on TB1 (which is where FCPX Libraries are stored). All of these are stuffed with a mixture of 4TB and 3TB drives.

On USB3, I have a 1TB SSD which is used for CCC cloning the iMac every night and a 3TB for TM (I didn't like using the NAS for TM).

Once the Pegasus R6 arrives I am going to toss the 2nd Synology and the Netgear and the LaCie, via eBay and try to get back a little cash and shelf space. Then start planning for the iMac Pro, which I will try to get early next year, once initial problems (if any) had been cleared up.

Anyway, that's the plan.

Just on the theme of performance, I just came across an excellent article from Larry Jordan. Well worth a read.

[Corrected wrong link]

You linked to an image, not an article.

Thanks for picking this up. Now fixed.