FCPX10.1.1 does not solve the problem with long-time clip editing!

OS: clean installed mac os10.9.1
FCPX: FCPX10.1.1
Project: 4clips, all of the clips is about 1 hour long
Disk: 900MB/S++

If I double press the "L" key, the response of FCPX is too slow

If I do other operation like browse the clip, or import long time clip,
the FCPX will become too slow to browse the timeline.

I've found the FCPX like to generate audio waves of the clip and
there's no option to shutdown this! I've tried all the options in FCPX like
do not show the waveform of audio in preference and close the audio waveform in timeline

I don't think I can work the project with 10.1.x.

the 10.0.9 also has the 1st problem, but don't have the 2nd problem.


Another project: 2000++ 4K 50P clips, but on FCPX 10.0.9, all of the clips is less than 40mins, always 20seconds.
though it will get slower when we import clips day after day,
it's much more smoother than 10.1.1!!!!!!
so,
I don't think we should update to 10.1.x for the little promotion of performance.
and 10.1.x also do not support nvidia K5000 card.
the render is slower than ait5700.....

I hope apple can solve the problem,
all of the above is just basic editing needs!
if the fcpx can not do even a long-time clip editing
why should I use it?

The big questions here are: What codec and what are the machine specs?

1 hour long clips are dvcprohd.
cause I worried about the fcpx, so I capture the tape to dvcprohd
and if I find the fcpx can not do the project , I can use fcp7 which is faster for dvcprohd than prores422.


however , I can bear the fcpx 10.0.9, but not fcpx10.1.1.
so I finish the project in fcpx10.0.9 because I want to practice the operation of FCPX.

machine specs:

2*3.06Ghz 6-core
24GB DDR3
and I've tried these graphic cards:

K5000
and
2 5770

the same result!

I've found the FCPX like to generate audio waves of the clip and
there's no option to shutdown this! I've tried all the options in FCPX like
do not show the waveform of audio in preference and close the audio waveform in timeline

Just to clarify. There seems to be a contradiction here. There are ways to shut of waveforms drawing in both the Browser and the Timeline. I'm not sure if you're saying that you've used those features and you're still seeing the waveform, which would mean there's an issue with your install or, you can shut them off but it has no impact on playback, which simply mean waveform drawing is not relevant to the issue.

Clarify, Can you shut off the waveforms?

Regarding the GPUs, Barefeats did test the Dual 5770s and it didn't fair as well as other dual and even single GPUs. Barefeats tests, while not extensive, they do show the Dual 7970 to be competitive.
barefeats.com/tube05.html

As to Apple solving "problems" I don't think they're going to look at improving backward compatibility. They don't sell new hardware that way. From what I understand though that a 2009 - 2012 MacPro will show improvement with Dual GPUs given that 10.1.x is dual GPU aware.

It's not clear what your hard drive situation is so you may want to explain that. I hear some reports that people are having problems with Western Digital drives and Mavericks. That would be independent of any given NLE though.

I question one hour clips. What timeline needs to have individual one hour long clips? A single one hour long clips is a LOT to edit. Unless this is a wedding. Then I'd generate Proxies to multicam with.

hi:)
my english is poor, and I try to make what I want to say clearly below:

1. I know how to show off the waveform, but even I show off them both in the browser and the timeline,
the FCPX still generate the waveform once you import the clip in or you drag it in timeline.
it uses back ground task.

1 hour clip will take >1 hour to generate the waveform, my system monitor show the hard disk speed is about
150MB/s when it generates.

2. I've tried this on many mac pros:
A.SSD(250MB/s) with 1 or 2 5770
B.external RAID(900MB/s) with 1 5770 or with 2 5770 or with 1 K5000
C.local Disk(80MB/s) with 1 K5000
D.local RAID(400MB/S) with 1 5770 or with 2 5770 or with 1 K5000

the DVCPROHD codec is only 100mb/s, all of the above disk and graphic card is enough.
it's sure even the firewire800 external drive can handle the 4 DVCPROHD clips in FCP7.

3. It must be a bug, cause 2mins clip takes only 2seconds to generate waveform when I drag it to timeline
but why 1 hour clip takes >1 hour???

4. I see the barefeat's link, I've only 5770 and k5000 cards, and I've tested them.
the result is
dual 5770> 1 k5000 in mac os 10.9.1
dual K5000= 1 k5000 in mac os 10.9.1
1 5770 almost= 1 K5000 in mac os 10.9.1, in some tests, 1 5770>1 k5000 in mac os 10.9.1
1 K5000> 1 5770 in mac os 10.8.x

whatever, the dvcprohd editing is enough with these card.


5. my hard drive is segate from apple, and RAID is PROMISE and EMC, and SSD is Sumsang 840pro.
but I don't think run dvcprohd clip is a problem with these.

haha,
there's many many many party show or concert or TV station's TV studio program in my country.

all of the above can easily make many 1 hour++ HDCAM or HDCAM SR tapes.
that's what I do.

for example: Spring Festival Gala often takes 4 hours+ long.

also, I must point out the barefeats tests is not overall.
it just represents the effect render time.
the effect rendering is use GPU,
when we use final cut pro X, what we often use is like dissolving, retiming, and picture in picture
if you render these, you will find ,GPU does not make sense.
it uses CPU to render.

and, if you playback 4K 50P prores in high quality and use aja kona 3g to output a signal to a monitor
it use CPU too.

I've posted a thread to question "the new mac pro" ,
for maybe it's not ready to handle 4K 50p project.

for TV, we often use 4K 50p instead of 4K 25p/24p
cause the 24p/25p is not proper for fast moving picture.







Regarding the GPUs, Barefeats did test the Dual 5770s and it didn't fair as well as other dual and even single GPUs. Barefeats tests, while not extensive, they do show the Dual 7970 to be competitive.
barefeats.com/tube05.html

As to Apple solving "problems" I don't think they're going to look at improving backward compatibility. They don't sell new hardware that way. From what I understand though that a 2009 - 2012 MacPro will show improvement with Dual GPUs given that 10.1.x is dual GPU aware.

It's not clear what your hard drive situation is so you may want to explain that. I hear some reports that people are having problems with Western Digital drives and Mavericks. That would be independent of any given NLE though.[/quote]

@artfoe When FCPX is generating waveforms for your 1 hour clip, select the background task viewer (click on the render wheel) and next to rendering waveforms click the x to terminate that function. This happens to me all the time when importing 1 and 2 hour tapes for conversion. I don't need the waveforms at that point so I terminate the render. You can always get them back on individual edits. Hope this helps !

I've tried that, but, it helps too little.
The main problem for editing, like to fast forward/backward and non-smooth browsing both browser and timeline, still happens.

And sometimes, if I terminate the background task of generating audio waveforms, the FCPX is only
“looks like" stopping generate, but no really stop. It still runs in background.
Sometimes, click terminate too many times cause crash.

Gernerally, not stable, not smoothing.

artofoe wrote: OS: clean installed mac os10.9.1
FCPX: FCPX10.1.1

I hope apple can solve the problem,
all of the above is just basic editing needs!
if the fcpx can not do even a long-time clip editing
why should I use it?

Ahaha! Apple already solve this problem! You just need to buy new MacPro for $10 000))))

10.0.6 - 10.0.7 much more faster than 10.1.1
No more chances to comfort video edition due Apple marketing policy

haha, that's not the problem for us, I think.
but, we just want the new mac pro can do 4K 50P smoothly if we buy it!
of course include every common situation that editing will meets.
like the 2hours clips editing or thousands of clips editing and searching
and playing the timeline with 10bit-12bit 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 signal to Sony 4K monitor

kzi2006 wrote:

artofoe wrote: OS: clean installed mac os10.9.1
FCPX: FCPX10.1.1

I hope apple can solve the problem,
all of the above is just basic editing needs!
if the fcpx can not do even a long-time clip editing
why should I use it?

Ahaha! Apple already solve this problem! You just need to buy new MacPro for $10 000))))

10.0.6 - 10.0.7 much more faster than 10.1.1
No more chances to comfort video edition due Apple marketing policy

BenB wrote: I question one hour clips. What timeline needs to have individual one hour long clips? A single one hour long clips is a LOT to edit. Unless this is a wedding. Then I'd generate Proxies to multicam with.

Ben, I work with 1hr+ clips from Xf100 and a bunch of HDV cams on a regular base. However, never with problems caused by the clip length.

I'd rather think the issue is DVCPro, not FCP.

I agree DVCPROHD may be the culprit. We finish many multi cam television shows with >1hr clips in ProRes formats and I don't see any of the issues the OP is describing. DVCPRO is an old codec, we had issues with it before. Fortunately we don't get much of this kind of footage anymore, except for short news projects.

XAVC has its own problems. It's still relatively new and Sony has had a lot of difficulties getting their import plugin right. First the PDZK-LT2 plugin screwed up many effects and color settings, then there was the green bar issue that was fixed with the 10.0.9 update, but there still seem to be issues with native playback using this plugin. As a rule we always convert 4K XAVC to ProRes (HQ for regular work, 4444 for general compositing and chroma key), or we use the HamburgPro MXF utility to work natively with XAVC MXF in FCPX. When using either of these workflows FCPX handles 4K XAVC without any issues.

I absolutely disagree that FCPX is slow with long timelines or long clips. That's the vast majority of the work we do, so if it were slow we definitely would not be working with it.

- Ronny

I completely agree with Ronny. I have lots of multicam projects with 1 to 2 hour 1080p ProRes clips.
Upon import I will transcode to proxy, because I'm working with 4 to 6 camera angles. To maintain proper playback performance for all these sources transcoding is necessary (I have a 2009 Mac Pro so no Thunderbolt). It takes some time to let FCPX do all the transcoding and waveform generating, but when it's done FCPX is running smooth as silk.

Robbert-Jan

thanks a lot roomy :lol:
I will test prores422 codec for >1 hour clips.
Maybe FCPX don't support DVCPROHD well.

for XAVC, our work can bear the "slow" now. for the "slow" is just caused by too many clips in events to load.
when loading finishes, we can do our work.

but, we don't want to make our XAVC to prores, the reasons are below:

1. 400hours 4K XAVC 50P needs a lot of disk space.
we use F55 to shoot some conferences, we cannot stop shooting in a 1 hour long conference，because
we don't know what we will use or what we will not use in the future.

2. As it is 4K XAVC 50p, when importing use FCPX, we cannot conveniently select part of one clip in the SXS PRO+ card or in hard disk ,even through USB3.0.
Cause:
A. the clips in one card are too many, it takes long time to load! if we are importing 1 clip, we cannot smoothly browse other clips.
B. if there is only 1 30mins 4K XAVC 50p clip, the width of the clip picture is too short, we cannot
conveniently select the part we want.

3. No solution for mac pro to output 4K 50p SDI signal to Sony Monitor.
so we can only use HD 50P signal to monitor.
that's ok for us, but
if you convert the 4K XAVC 50p to 4K Prores422 50p,
you cannot use high quality setting to playback the timeline when AJA Card is working!
The AJA card use a lot of CPU when output even HD signal!
Without high quality setting, what you see in Sony Monitor is fuzzy.
you cannot conveniently make a decision whether the clip you should use or not!
we don't want to always press stop to check the focus of these clips.
however, with 4K XAVC 50p clips, you can see little difference between high quality and better performance
setting, cause the XAVC codec use CPU to decode.

ronny courtens wrote: I agree DVCPROHD may be the culprit. We finish many multi cam television shows with >1hr clips in ProRes formats and I don't see any of the issues the OP is describing. DVCPRO is an old codec, we had issues with it before. Fortunately we don't get much of this kind of footage anymore, except for short news projects.

XAVC has its own problems. It's still relatively new and Sony has had a lot of difficulties getting their import plugin right. First the PDZK-LT2 plugin screwed up many effects and color settings, then there was the green bar issue that was fixed with the 10.0.9 update, but there still seem to be issues with native playback using this plugin. As a rule we always convert 4K XAVC to ProRes (HQ for regular work, 4444 for general compositing and chroma key), or we use the HamburgPro MXF utility to work natively with XAVC MXF in FCPX. When using either of these workflows FCPX handles 4K XAVC without any issues.

I absolutely disagree that FCPX is slow with long timelines or long clips. That's the vast majority of the work we do, so if it were slow we definitely would not be working with it.

- Ronny

Hey, Ronny
We use DVCPRO HD and DVCPRO25 and 50 quite a bit and I haven't noticed any issues that I can pinpoint editing these codecs. As they have always been considered optimized codecs, we have been editing them in their native formats on the FCPX timeline. Do you suggest now in version 10.1.1 to optimize these upon import to obtain better performance?

We will hopefully be upgrading our cameras to HPX255's and shooting in AVC INTRA-100 soon. Some of our footage is already AVC INTRA and FCPX seems to work great with that.

So ,we import all the 4k XAVC 50p clips into our mac pro as 4K XAVC 50p mov day after day :lol

hi, for now our project is going on:

mac pro:
2*3.06Ghz 6-core
24GB DDR3
1 5770 card or 1 K5000 card
USB3.0&ESATA 6Gbps card for mac
Promise 3TB*24 Raid for 1 mac pro
Aja knoa 3G card

Sony F55 to shoot 4k XAVC 50p.

we use 4K 25P timeline to edit for more editing speed.
Output 25p SDI signal to Sony HD monitor when editing.
Sometimes check 4K 25p singal to Sony 4K monitor.
For HD broadcast, we output 25i SDI signal to Sony HD monitor, first we will copy our finish timeline to 4K 50p, do some check on 4K monitors dragging pointer in timeline
then copy the finish timeline to HD 25i render to HD25i.
I've test the 50p to 50i interlaced render of FCPX for fast dancing clips, it's good.


Any problem?

dgwvideo wrote: Hey, Ronny
We use DVCPRO HD and DVCPRO25 and 50 quite a bit and I haven't noticed any issues that I can pinpoint editing these codecs. As they have always been considered optimized codecs, we have been editing them in their native formats on the FCPX timeline. Do you suggest now in version 10.1.1 to optimize these upon import to obtain better performance?

We will hopefully be upgrading our cameras to HPX255's and shooting in AVC INTRA-100 soon. Some of our footage is already AVC INTRA and FCPX seems to work great with that.