Conforming to 24p in 10.1

I'm not sure if anyone has seen this yet, but in 10.1 Apple decided to change the wording from Conform to Automatic Speed. It actually stumped me for a minute and every web search I attempted just led back to my vimeo tutorial from 2011 or my blog post about it. I wanted to let everyone know about the change!

davechapfilms.com/conforming-to-24p-in-final-cut-pro-x-101

Conform > Automatic Speed

Thanks Dave!

Dave

good catch

The original conform function in FCPX 10.0.9 and earlier when applied to a clip in the timeline allowed that clip to playback at it's captured FPS instead of the project FPS. If a clip was not " conformed " then it automatically played at the project frame rate. So unless 10.1 changed this behavior, your blog post describing this may be reversed.

The project/storyline does allow for mixed frame rates. If a clip is added that's a different frame rate from the project, frames will drop or repeat for the clip to play correctly for time. When Conform or Automatic Speed is added to the clip, it will adjust the clips frames to play at exactly the project frame rate, speeding up or slowing down the playback.

This has been the case in 1.0.x and is still present in 10.1.

I wish they called it "Conform to Project" and it would be a little more clear.

dgwvideo wrote: The original conform function in FCPX 10.0.9 and earlier when applied to a clip in the timeline allowed that clip to playback at it's captured FPS instead of the project FPS. If a clip was not " conformed " then it automatically played at the project frame rate. So unless 10.1 changed this behavior, your blog post describing this may be reversed.

That's not what's happening. When conform/automatic speed is applied, the clip's frames are conformed to the projects frame rate, changing the duration of that clip. If a clip isn't conformed, it will playback at normal speed with dropped frames, attempting to only match the frame rate instead of a conform operation.

I haven't tried any retiming yet with 10.1 but are you saying that if my project is 24p and I place a clip that is 60p (59.94) into the timeline that it will play in slow motion at 60 FPS without having to select anything? In previous versions I selected that clip and chose conform to keep the natural slow motion of a 60p clip in a 24p project, otherwise it matched the project rate.

No, I'm not saying that. Your 60p clip in a 24p project would play at normal speed, but drop frames to match the project rate. Your 60 fps clip isn't slow motion, it just has more frames per second. With conform, you are targeting the project rate. That could be 24p or 30p. It forces all of those 60 frames across whatever the project rate is, thus looking like its in slow motion.

I think you are both saying the same thing.

Conform (Automatic Speed) simply uses every single original frame of the clip.

24fps timeline, drop a 60fps clip in, it will discard (not drop, which is the symptom of a problem, technically) specific frames so the clip play at normal speed at 24fps. Auto-Speed (Conform) simply adds those original frames back in, cause the clip to be "retimed" (for those who remember Cinema Tools), which results in an "in-camera" slow motion effect, using only the original frames.

Drop a 24fps clip into a 60fps timeilne, Automatic Speed, and it will play fast motion.

This is much cleaner than slowing a native 24fps clip, as that causes "fake frames" to be created, which introduce stutter, blur, etc.

I think we all understand what happens. Just using different ways to describe it. If someone isn't understanding this, I have an animation I did for my Apple Authorized classes I can post that explains this really clearly.

Yes, we are on the same page with how it functions. Glad to see the behavior remains the same.

Hey chaps, my first post here so bare with me
Im currently cutting a promo where everything is shot at 50fps, we are looking for the slow dreamy look that 50 will give us. What i don't understand in FCpx is why i will now have to add each clip to the timeline in X to "conform" or "automatic speed" them meaning that every time i patch to the timeline and do this it will nudge my entire edit down and then i will also need to render.I also have no option to view my footage in 50fps before adding to my timeline
I just did a quick test between cinema tools and FCPx on a 4 minute clip cinema tools (antiquated and discontinued as it is) conformed in about 4s FCPx rendered in about 10s.. am i missing something?

@Chrismans

You are correct. If you have cinema tools (or even Resolve Lite), you can batch conform clips at the start. Since Cinema Tools isn't sold anymore, the only way to achieve this in FCPX is to work within the timeline.

That said, there's the option to disable rippling on the retime of the clip. If anyone just wants to see a string out of all their "slomo" clips, just drop them all in a new timeline (23.976), select all and choose automatic speed. You could even cut from this into your working timeline.

I'm just learning FCP and have spent days reading things online. This thread seems helpful, but still has me confused.

I have gopro footage shot at 60fps. The end target is Vimeo, so I only want to export at 30fps. To do this I need a 30fps project (right?). What workflow do I need to use to make sure I don't get short changed on my frames for slow motion segments? It seems like I can bypass the whole "automatic speed" thing and just do my project in 60fps or 30fps - the slowmo seems to look about the same. So why do I even need to use the "automatic speed" command? Or I could do the project in 60fps, then when I've got it how I like it, I could paste it all into a 30fps project. Does this do anything other than waste time?

Please tell me what order of operations I should use to take a bunch of 60fps footage if my desired result is a 30fps project with some segments slowed down for crisp slow motion.

Thank you.

Hi Steve,

Actually it's quite simple: create a 30fps project and drop your 60 fps footage onto the timeline.

If you want your clips to play at normal speed: don't do anything, FCPX will automatically remove the redundant frames and your clips will play at normal speed without any issues or quality loss.

If you want some of your clips to play in slow-motion: select a clip on the Timeline and select the "Automatic Speed" command. FCPX will now play every single frame of your 60fps clip on the 30fps timeline, resulting in a perfect 50% slow-motion.

- Ronny

Perhaps I should rephrase. It does sound like that is a surefire way to make sure I'm getting what I deserve, but it seems a little obnoxious. to have to "auto speed" the clip, then go back in and speed up that parts I don't want slowmo. I was hoping that FCP would be smart enough to just know that I have 60fps footage and at any speed between 100 and 50%, it would just take the frames it needs from the native file.

Will the effect be the same if I do everything in a 60fps project (since that is what I'm in now) and then paste it all into a 30fps project? It seems like I will be adding frames when I slow down in the 60fps and then dropping frames when I go to 30fps. Will the two cancel out nicely, or create some undesirable affects.

I'm looking for what I gain by using "auto speed", or more specifically, if I loose something by going some other route.

Thank you.

Just to get a better idea of what you are wanting, I'm curious about the footage you have.

Is all of your footage shot with a GoPro?
Is all of your footage shot at 60fps or higher?
Do you have dialogue or is this going to be edited with a voice over and/or music?

If only some of your footage is shot at a high frame rate and you want playback to be slow, great. If everything was shot at a high frame rate and only some clips need to be slow, that would help to know.

You want your timeline to be your intended fps. You are thinking 30fps (29.97) for Vimeo, but it could easily be 24fps (23.976) and stay that way for Vimeo. It works with both. Although, 60fps or 120fps is not a fps you would want to deliver in.

If you have many clips shot at 30fps (29.97) and you want them to playback at normal speed, make your project 29.97. When you drop in your high frame rate material (60 or 120), the clip will default to playing back at normal speed (realtime not slowmo). For those clips to play back slower, you would choose "automatic speed" so the clip would spread out its 60 or 120 frames over 30fps—which is your timeline setting. For a 60fps clip in a 30fps timeline, it would play at half speed without doing any other tick to slow down (frame blending or rendering new frames with Optical Flow).

Now if you have shot all your material in 60fps (which I have had clients do in the past), that is more of a technical mistake if you are wanting some of the clips to playback at normal speed (realtime). I would suggest a 29.97 timeline and letting FCPX render those clips. You could do this at the end, editing in a 60fps timeline, but it may prove to be a major headache when adding other material into the edit that's not 60fps.

Sometimes fps vs timecode is a point of confusion. This is a little guide to show what people mean when you see it. This is what your camera shoots in and what your timeline needs to be setup as.

24fps/24p = 23.976 (almost all time time—see below)
24fps = 24.000 (this is rare, but with Blackmagic Cameras and some Canon EOS, it's possible to choose this by accident. It's a film stock speed).
30fps/30p = 29.97 (all the time—no one gives 30.000 fps for anything*)
60fps/60p = 59.94 (most people think this means interlaced, and it doesn't)
120fps = just high speed that needs to be mapped to something above

Note, these are all US/Japan NTSC and not PAL.

I was hoping that FCP would be smart enough to just know that I have 60fps footage and at any speed between 100 and 50%, it would just take the frames it needs from the native file.

Well, that's exactly what I have been telling you (quote):

If you want your clips to play at normal speed: don't do anything, FCPX will automatically remove the redundant frames and your clips will play at normal speed without any issues or quality loss.

So you never need to use Automatic Speed if you don't want to. You just use this feature when you have footage that was shot at a higher framerate than your Project framerate AND you want to use every frame of this footage on your timeline for creating the best looking slow-motion.

To follow your example:

When you drop 60fps footage onto a 30fps Timeline FCPX automatically removes half of the frames to make your video play at 100% on your timeline. This means the clip on your timeline now only has 30fps and not 60fps anymore.

- When you apply a normal 50% slow-motion to this clip you will start with 30fps and FCPX will create 30 extra duplicate frames from the 30fps clip to accommodate for the slow-motion. This may result in jerky movement because you are just duplicating existing frames.

- But when you apply Automatic Speed to that same clip FCPX will take every frame from the original 60fps clip and spread it over your 30fps timeline. This means your 60fps clip will play at 50% with no duplicate frames being created. This will result in a perfect slow-motion without any jerkiness.

To recap:

Automatic Speed is absolutely a great feature when you work with footage that has been recorded at a higher framerate than your Project framerate, AND to which you want to apply slow-motion. For anything else you don't need Automatic Speed.

As a sidenote:

There is one other situation where Automatic Speed can be very beneficial. When you receive footage from a screen capture device or from an online video site the video may have weird frame rates that are slightly off the regular video frame rates (like 28fps, 23fps etc...). When you drop such footage on a regular timeline it may play irregularly or show jerky movement because the NLE is constantly adding or dropping frames to fit the video frames into the Project framerate.

When you apply Automatic Speed to such clips they will play slightly slower or faster than normal, but any jerkiness will be gone as no frames are getting added or removed during playback. If the clip framerate only differs slightly from your Project framerate the slight slowing down or speeding up will be much less troubling than the jerky playback when you don't use Automatic Speed.

- Ronny

You got me confused again (or perhaps on the road to understanding). FCP gives me the option of doing my project in 30fps, but it sounds like I should really using 29.97. Is that right? What negative effect do I get if I make the project a straight 30fps?

At present 99% of my footage is shot with GoPro. I am an avid free dive hunter, who is becoming more of a film junkie. I now refuse to shoot a fish if I'm not filming, and spend most of my time filming rather than hunting. That said, I still love the hunt, taking exactly the fish I want, and capturing it on film. So I haven't quite evolved to the point of investing another couple grand into a camera and going strictly film. But I do occasionally splice in some third person shots from other divers with DLSR cameras. I also really like the stability that my speargun gives me for capturing smooth(er) film and getting close to my subjects. As you will see in my shark video, it is also the most practical tool for interacting with our local bull shark population (one of my favorite subjects). The gun commands respect and gives me the pointy leverage I need if they get too frisky.

In all my dive videos, I dump the native audio 100% and just add a music track. I wish I could just turn off audio recording in the go pro and save the juice/space for video.

I bought the H3 black, specifically for 60fps. Under my old paradigm of Windows Movie Maker, this was the only way I could get good slowmo footage. Movie Maker seemed to intelligently know to use all my frames when I slowed it down. Or perhaps I was just automatically in the equivalent of a 60fps project. When I was shooting more fish, I thought it would really take my video to the next level to have slow motion. Now I realize that much of it is done with post processing. I also find that I shoot less fish, and end up only using the 60fps (doing slow mo) for like 5% of my video. I've been doing a LOT of research lately trying to figure out what the best GoPro setting is for my application. It seems that 1080P and 60fps is most widely used in my application but that 2.7k 30fps is also used. I'm going to test that out tomorrow. Can you point me to a thread for advice on that topic, and how to use FCP with 2.7k?

Here is the shark video that I am working on. This version does not have the Protune post processed, and is straight exported from a 60fps project. I have a new version where I have employed many of the tricks I've been learning over the past few weeks. The project is currently 60fps. Should I copy and paste it all into a 30 fps project, or a 29.97 fps project? Do I need to do anything special during that process? I'm thinking that will export better for upload to vimeo.

vimeo.com/85692766

This is another video made with windows movie maker. All I did was import all the 60fps footage, and then slow down certain parts. You'll recognize the one that I am cinematographically proud of. I'm looking forward to improving this with FCP, optical flow, and pro tune post processing.

vimeo.com/68445323

Thanks for your insight. I think I'm almost getting it.