some feedback please

hey guys

Finally feel brave enough to post a couple links. I been using FCP for about 2-3 months now. Any feed back would be appreciated as I'm new to filming and editing and want to improve on what i have learnt so far

im shooting with a Sony NEX-VG30 camera.

This video is for a amateur american footy team i work with

vimeo.com/63532214

this one is for a friends birthday party for her son

vimeo.com/63080334

Thanks

Thanks for sharing, Malc68. (I'm guessing Malcolm... maybe born in 68).. hehe, but I digress.

Ok, the football one first. It's a bit long for the content, so your choice is add content or cut footage. Your opening act drags on. Yes the pastoral theme sets the tone for the stoic buildings, but that 30 second pan was a bit much. The thing that really turned me off was your video glitch to modern music. Not the concept, the execution. We get it, old buildings, traditional music, young guys hip tracks, cool. But just do it! That's the record scratch sound for a second with the video static & we're done. Man, you did it back & forth for what seemed like half a minute, it was agonizing!

Somewhere around that section you also have some camera shake, FCPX can stabilize, utilize that, it ups your value. Once the boys are running their action our interest picks up a bit, along with the music, but all of your shots are stationary. I'd really prefer some camera movement to compliment the motion of the players. Also try some different angles, from low shooting up, etc, experiment, change it up a bit. I like the first shot down the line as they're coming past us, but seeing that twice or the toe touch part, loses steam. The long shots don't work so well. Like when the lads run the L shape to catch the pass, I'd rather you be at the intersection where they change direction, or at the bottom end of the L, so either way there's a dramatic moment when they are running straight at the camera. Since you show that movement twice, I'd do it once from each of those locations. First he's running right at us, sharp left then catches. Next shot we're panning as he's running with us, then sharp turn right towards us Boom, he catches the ball right in front of us. Can you envision how that would be more dynamic & exciting for the viewer?

Here's another great benefit of that type of shot, it makes your athletes look better. They're not so small & far away. You have them fill the screen, you make them feel important, they will call you back for more. The Coach will say, bring Malcolm back, he makes my guys look like pros. As you practice more, you can time that catch so your camera is chest height as he's running towards you, then you sink a little lower shooting up as he catches it. Now you've captured a moment. Be careful about showing the same thing twice, our eyes tire of repetition, it translates as boredom or disinterest, keep us engaged.

Some colorizing or effects of some sort would also break up the amateur video look for the football piece.

Birthday Party
Ok, I suppose I'm required to commend you for being courageous or artistic or something by trying the black & white. That's what they would tell you in film school. I'm just going to be honest... it doesn't work here. The majority is way too dark, for such a bright colorful event, you've sucked a lot of the life out of it. As soon as I saw those little cupcakes going by, I knew they were brightly colored & we were missing it. Why?

However, there are 2 shots you've captured, which are gorgeous, early on the little boy sitting with his cup, & a little later a boy in white in the middle of a vignette. Those are really wonderful shots that actually work in B&W. Perhaps if we'd been all in color then desaturated to frame those shots in B&W, you might have been able to have your artistic moments made more indelible. There is a 3rd shot which very nearly approaches the magnitude of the two I just mentioned, that being the 2 women fawning over the toddler, offering him what looks like chocolate. The scene is lovely, the composition fine & we almost have the right lighting, but not quite. You'll notice a lot of video noise in that specific scene on the woman's shoulder facing us, you need to learn your ISO's, shutter speed etc, to be able to handle these low light situations. There's probably someone on Youtube teaching all the tips he's learned on how to shoot in low light with your specific camera. Even in post, with FCPX you can brighten a lot of this & also fix the noise with a plugin called Neat Video. There are also some other tricks if you do searches, but Neat is rumored to be the best.

As the Party video began I was thinking this seems more professional than the football one, but I think your director's choices went awry. Though your friends are happy you filmed it, I'm certain all those mothers would rather see the colorful rosy cheeks of their tiny loved ones. The final straw is that you show color at the end, symbolically it's all backwards. A little one's life isn't all dark & morbid, coming into colorful life at age one or two. You would have done better to show us the color all along but maybe experiment with some sepia tones, vignettes or desaturation for specific scenes... maybe. You have to try & see if it works. A couple of things I think worked perfectly, were first of all the music (it fit the children & the scenes perfectly), & secondly the slow motion sections, subtle but effective.

Nice job, Malcolm, you show lots of promise. From the standout shots I've mentioned you've demonstrated an eye of artistic sensitivity, that's not something easily learned or acquired.

Looking forward to your next film...

thanks again for sharing

Trix

many thanks, yeah i was trying to set the peaceful scene before the higher energy bit will look at shortening then.

So what would you say is best for pacing in terms of length of each scene. I can see what you saying with the WRs running the post pattern, It was filmed for coaches use so they wanted the wide shot.

I havent really played with colourizing yet so what sort of thing i should look to utilize with these sort of scenes.

thanks again, much appreciated

Trix

the party one was a mare the room was really dark in the middle of the room and it was poorly lit around the out side so i thought the best way to salvage what i had was B&W.

There isn't really a set-in-stone formula for scene lengths, but each scene should end on something noteworthy, the point of the scene. If it doesn't have a point or purpose, it has no right to be in your film. Cut it out.

For your football piece, since you're going for contrast, the calm before the storm, I would cut that scene before the classical music begins to build. If you're looking to use the calm pastoral music juxtaposed against your hiphop & rap, then the moment the pastoral music begins to approach a crescendo you're losing your contrast. Chop that scene while your soundtrack is still calm & gentle, before even the first hint of it building. Then you will have greater contrast, which some might say is more art. Well... at least it will be a higher contrast version of the effect you're going for.

I'm going to agree with Trix here.

With regards to the Football film - the intro needs to be tightened to a couple of shots (like 3 or 4), and maybe fade between the opening shots (so you can cut mid pan with a fade). Then do the glitches to transition over to the hip hop scene but look at doing a load of crash-cuts at that point of the athletes (really quick cuts like 2 seconds each mixed with the logo) - that should get the idea across much quicker & tighter.

With regards to the Birthday video; there does not seem to be much noise in the video, so I'm guessing the light was not too dark. With kids birthdays you normally would expect to increase the saturation to make it more colorful, not decrease the saturation to B&W. As there is not much noise in the video I reckon you could look at increasing the brightness a lot, increase the saturation (then balance the contrast), and maybe add in some noise reduction if its needed (and if you have it). I don't know, the B&W image with that music strikes a discordant note with me; I feel like I'm watching the beginning of a horror movie and the clown is about to go crazy or something! Children's parties = happy = colorful!

simon may i should chuck a few pics of pennywise in then lol

This is some tough love but appreciate the feedback.

Haha, Pennywise - that my nightmare right there. Clowns and me don't mix...

I mean the Children's party is fundamentally all in place, and its good to experiment with grades and all that. It will be a quick fix too; just do a quick render of the colorful version and show them both to a couple of friends (and post it here) and then see which one gets the most votes.

Likewise, the Football one is fundamentally in place too; and the idea is sound. Its just a question of tightening it up a few quick cuts, and voila!

ok round 2

Simon and Trix i have trimmed the fat and got rid of the slower stuff and the duplication. I have added some light and blurred the edges a little on the players and added a vignette on the first section with the country side and the building

i have trimmed off over a 70 seconds from the original version, yet again ya honest thoughts will be most appreciated

vimeo.com/63590036

Ok, we're making changes, that can be good. For your intro, I do like Simon's idea of cross fades to ease us from shot to shot during the pastoral theme. This contributes to the gentleness factor. I'd also prefer the camera was always moving in with that same comforting caress. So the pans are slow, when you have a static shot as the one on the statue, add a slow zoom. You can do this with Alex4D's plugin . Fade to the next shot before you get in too close (so we don't see any deterioration of resolution). Never let us see the beginning or end of a pan, all we see is movement, easy & gentle.

Not sure I'm fully appreciating the effect you've added to act one. It looks like a blur vignette, that's probably not the best for this section. How about since we're contrasting old & new, you try & see what a slightly desaturated look does for this concept. Not totally sepia or B&W, but slightly less vibrant, & perhaps experiment with a bit of a burnt orange hue or tint to see if that works with the brick buildings. We don't have to go so far as to add film damage to make it look aged, but just tone our colors down a bit, then we can go more vibrant when we get to the team doing their drills. Try to desaturate a bit, but keep everything sharp, take out that blur & add a very subtle vignette. So slight it's almost imperceptible.

Also, be careful panning one way & then back the other, we want to be floating along in one long flow, like a gentle river. You can reverse the image of your clip in FCPX, like a mirror, so the pan can always go the same way. Remember no beginnings or ends, just continual flow with cross fades. Some of these shots are still too long. As is your video glitch section, you only need 1 or 2 seconds of that glitch static. It's a super irritating noise & visual, get it over with, why torture your audience? Its only purpose is to provide an abrupt change of direction, if it's not abrupt & quick it loses its purpose & takes on another, that of extreme annoyance.

Act 2; Again, I'm not crazy about this effect. Looks like a glow, but the helmets are so white & now glowing, we can't even see them, which also becomes annoying. Let's try getting rid of the glow & amping up your colors, more saturation & vibrancy, see if that works. But this whole section also has to be punchier, quicker cuts, try to get your body impacts to match those in the music. Again, we need camera movement, since we didn't film it, fake it in post. Use Alex's plugin so we have a slight zoom working as we're looking down the line of boys jogging past us. Remember what I said about beginnings & ends, don't let us see the last guy straggling along at the end of the line, cut to something else before our visual action peters out of steam. Keep it exciting, bang bang bang, like the music (which also becomes a bit annoying .. hehe).

I notice you've cut one of the shots of the receiver making the running catch. Probably the wrong one. The other one had the guy jumping up to catch the high pass, that was far more exciting than the one where he has to stoop lower to catch it. The high pass was the shot that made me think, I'd love to have shot that from a low angle up. If you swap those shots, & do a fast zoom right as he catches it & a flash transition to the next shot, then you've got some visual impact.

From my sports days, I recall the sense of a Coach screaming "pick it up! Pick it Up! PICK IT UP!!!" They want a quicker pace, go go go!. Let that voice spur you on as you cut this thing to quicken the pace, more dynamism, add some quick camera movements in post, make it sizzle. End on a bang, that logo just sits there at the end, for too long, just like it did during the first time we saw it. Show it for 3 seconds, then Boom, blast a flaming football thru it!

Malc,

Looks better to me. I have not read Trix's reply yet, so I am just going to say what I think (so if he and I are thinking the same thing you will excuse any repetition).

I think its better - definitely snappier, which is what you want. I'm sure people who are at that college (and who are in the team or know the team) will be pretty happy with it.

For people from the general population who are not in that college, I would say that the intro is still a bit too long.

Up until 12/13 seconds on your cut is cool - but then there is a fade to black cut that shows a static clubhouse from 0.13 to 0.16 - I would cut that out because its breaking your flow. Then come in with the nice pan of the college at 0.16 to 0.21. The next pan is reversed of the fields - I would cut that out because we've already moved on to the college, no need to go back into the countryside (and the pan is going the wrong way which is disruptive - you can reverse it in post though so long as there are no animals or smoke in the scene). If I were doing this I would cut out the pan of the countryside and then bring in the static shot of the college at 0.24 with the sun peeking over the roof (add in a discrete sun flare effect here if you want to try it) - and then do your glitch effect and bring in the Logo and hip-hop section. I reckon that is all you need for the intro - the rest of the shots are redundant (and the cars in the car-park are not helping the contrast you have been setting up between the old pastoral college scenes and new hip-hop athlete scenes - don't show modern stuff in the old section. Maybe try dialing down the blur effect a bit as it is too overpowering.

The next section is fine, though you could try to open the hip-hop section by cutting to the beat (time your cuts to the beat for the first 10 seconds or so, using short 2 or 3 second cuts, depending on the beat). If it doesn't look right then scrap it. Maybe try dialing down the blown-out overexposed effect a little bit too.

But that is just what I would do; and all editors are different (and I am by no means any sort of expert - these are just my personal opinions).

ok fellas think i have cracked it. i have toned the colours and made sure the pans are going the same dumped some static shots binned the vignettes too

made static transitions alot quicker

with the second section i have used alex motion plugin (which is awesome) to add some pace, changed the music to some thing guitar based and have managed to quick cut in time to the power chords. i also used some of alex colour plugins to brighten the second half up a little so the white is not as glowing as before.

Sounds like exciting progress.... soooo... are you going to actually show it to us... or just tease us with tantalizing descriptions?

version 3 lol

vimeo.com/63717381

This is really exciting, the transformational process as this film takes shape. Ultimately it's the story of every project; material, theatrical, even ethical, it's ongoing. Some question whether it's ever actually finished?

I see you've titled this one Final, so perhaps you're ready to move on, or meet the deadline. As an artist you mustn't think of positive critique as someone telling you what to do, you're always free to experiment & try different avenues, the main objective is to develop an eye & sensibility to know why one method may convey your message in a more efficient way than another. Ultimately that's what we're seeking, the best delivery system. You want your vision & passion to pump directly into the heart & mind of the viewer. Then they feel what you feel.

So, with that in mind, does this latest incarnation feel better to you that what we started with?

It does to me & I'll tell you why. We'll start with the positives, but there are a still a couple of areas we can tighten up a bit. In the past I've mentioned here that many times I've worked with partners who said, "It's good enough, the client will accept it, just send it over." For me, a true artist, won't let it go until he's perfected every little thing he can. Yes, sometimes we're bound by various constraints, but if you can't be true to your own soul of expression, then your art is a lie. When it just becomes about the money, the art is lost, your product is crass & vulgar.

So, at first I missed the rap music, but as the piece went on, I think you're right in choosing this track, the speed is much quicker & the lack of words means less distractions from the visuals. Before I get ahead of myself, the intro is much better without the blur, as is the game section without the glow. We've dropped the first pass & kept the high catch, all good so far. There is some cutting to the beat which works well, I'd like to see more.

Ok, so a few minor tweaks. The intro still goes on too long. Our first shot has a second of background noise where we should have none in any of that opening section, just the music. If you want to add a sound effect here, use birds in post. We've dropped the shaky birds shot, but I think we can still lose a couple more shots. I agree with Simon, once we're at the buildings, let's not go back to the fields. Longer crossfades would be gentler in that section, maybe we still have 2 too many shots of the buildings. One of them is just sitting there, no zooming or panning.

The glitch is still a bit too long, I'd prefer 2 seconds of video static as the building picture is taken over, then 2.5 seconds of the logo, have it flash twice, once fuzzed then once clear, boom we're in to the game.

This section we've upped our reds, but where are our greens? The grass, the trees, this game is played on grass, real or fake, it's still green. Presently we're all burgundy but everything else is flat. Bring back the greens & pump up the blue sky. Now that I think about it, I didn't really notice much desaturation in the opening scene, that's the contrast we're seeking.

Like Simon suggested, more cuts on the quick beats of the music will energize the game section. Now we're zooming in on the marching line but it goes on too long. I wouldn't mind trying flipping the image 2 times or so back & forth like a mirror as they go by. We're still zooming, but then they flash to passing us on the left, then back to the right. It might work. We need more cuts, you have footage, so pick up the pace. The gloved hand on the ground - way too long, I'd rather see that for just 1 beat, bang! we're on to something else. When the player is running those mini hurdles, besides a slow zoom, I wouldn't mind an overlay at reduced opacity right in close on his feet from the knees down, it's like a ghosting image, just more stuff happening. This is contrasting the solemn stasis of those ancient buildings with something so dynamic & exciting, every shot has to be totally unpredictable. Don't let us see any shot of players last longer than about 4 seconds, match your music, that's speed metal, where's your speed video?

Like I said about ongoing processes, that's the way I'm writing this. So I see you've already started commenting. Sure, let the lads see your vid, then let it rest for a while, think about other things, maybe start a new project... then come back & perfect this. You want to be able to look at a final product & say, there's nothing more I can add or take away to make this better, it's complete.

I hope you feel it's getting closer to that..

Yeah final one as the lads wanted to see it. Just really appreciate the time and effort you and simon put into helping me

Its more than what i wanted if im being honest. As i the ideas and help you guys gave helped get me there. Dont understand those people who ask for help or feedback then dont act on it.

Looks good to me, and I'm sure the Footballers will be happy with that.

Incidentally, I prefer the new rock music to the hip-hop version.

But then again, I've always been more of a Rocker than a ...Hopper...? :evil:

While you were typing your 2 comments, I was still adding stuff to the update above. Sorry for the length but your piece deserves detailed observations.

Your question is a philosophical one. It's been my experience in consulting that people place no value on free advice. In fact if they didn't pay for it, the majority of people view it as worthless, or at least dismiss it as someone's personal opinion rather than a professional analysis.

A client asked me why I waste my time giving freebies on a site like this? Being passionate about art, spurs me to encourage others who are serious. Sure, I've had a few go ballistic here, angry, swearing, everything. But we've also met some beautiful souls, earnest & hungry for the beauty of this art form. A tip of the hat to Peter for running this place in a way that contributes to a nurturing environment. Over many years I had the blessing of old masters taking me under their wing, even just for a moment on a busy set, to share some rare gem. These are things that stay with you, thru the years, like the artist's brushes, they facilitate expression.

There's another component, one that is often seen in youth, but some, sadly, never outgrow it. It's a thing you see a lot of on the web, people post something, but not really for an honest critique, but rather for validation. Everything is reduced down to numbers of hits or "likes." Who cares about quality, I'm getting hits. So the forums are full of comments like; "You rock, man!" "That was awesome, dude." etc. This is the validation they seek, maybe a kind of search for a sense of meaning or purpose. Some people with a viral videos actually convince themselves they're an artist, so then naturally anyone who doesn't press "like," just doesn't get it, they don't understand his artistic genius. He must be right because look how popular he is. Someone caught up in that is blinded by their apparent "success" no matter how fleeting. Not able to step back & see the capricious nature of fame, how it chews you up & spits you out, used, finished.

A perfect example of this is the viral madness surrounding these trends like the Gangnam Style video, it started off as being so silly, Westerners were passing it around as a joke, but once the hits reached into the millions, people were convinced it must be good, otherwise why would it be popular? Then it takes on a life of its own & the one trick pony is paraded out on the talk shows as a true "phenomenon." In another month its gone, hardly art.

You, I sense have a desire to improve your craft, so in that we salute & encourage you.

(Would also encourage you to leave all the prior versions up, just in case someone else following this thread & developing their skills can benefit from the process of your film's evolution)

thank you

Its all true, Trix, but at the end of the day editing is a classic case of art vs commerce.

Which artist was it where the wife had to come in and tell him to put down the brush because the painting was finished, "Hand it over because I got to pay the bills"!? I think it was Picasso, but I could be wrong. Essentially, he would keep painting, chasing perfection and never getting there, because his artistic eye could never be pleased. Meanwhile, his ever practical wife, with commercial concerns, had to be the one to say: "Stop. Its good enough". Not good enough for Picasso, maybe, but certainly good enough to put food on the table....

Sometimes, you just have to call it, and stop editing. I've never made a perfect video and have never been truly happy with anything I've made, but eventually the time comes to move on to the next project. Sometimes 'good enough' has to be just 'good enough'! These days I try to set myself a time limit for personal projects, because I always work better for other people when I have a deadline - so I deadline myself these days.

I think the viral video phenomenon is interesting; if the ultimate aim is to make a viral video, then success is only judged by the amount of clicks and likes, and not whether or not the piece is high art. You have to cater to your audience after all...