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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 10:07 #44761

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Anyone have any clues on the return of "send to motion"?

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 10:27 #44763

I hope it does not return at all ;) At least not the way it was.

FCP's 'send to motion' was as clunky as dynamic linking between Premiere and AE CC. If Apple decides to re-establish a link between FCP X and Motion it should be completely seamless and without any restrictions. Send to motion did not port any FCP filters, transitions or generators into Motion. Now that FCP X and Motion share the same effects, titles and transitions I think they will get there. Then I will be glad to have it back.

- Ronny

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 11:10 #44764

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I hope it does not return at all ;) At least not the way it was....

Okay :) how about this:
A "Motion clip" class (similar to multichannel clip, compound clip) that when double clicked yields the full toolset of Motion 5 directly inside of FCPX. But otherwise hidden. Such motion clips would also be subject to integrated FCPX Library management

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 11:13 #44765

That would not be bad at all :)

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 11:33 #44766

Let us not forget sound. It would be so nice with a seamless integration with Logic. Imagine this; project is ready for some audio sweetening and then; one click and everything just opens in Logic X. Of course with full integration of Roles and everything. Wow. That would be a killer feature.
I am positive that in a couple of years we will all be looking back on these wish lists and laugh. At that time FCPX will put all other NLEs to shame.

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 11:42 #44767

Good ideas, and not unrealistic at all. While others just continue to build on the same old structure FCP X is the only NLE in which anything seems to be possible at this moment. Interesting times B)

- Ronny

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 12:55 #44768

I hope it does not return at all ;) At least not the way it was....

Okay :) how about this:
A "Motion clip" class (similar to multichannel clip, compound clip) that when double clicked yields the full toolset of Motion 5 directly inside of FCPX. But otherwise hidden. Such motion clips would also be subject to integrated FCPX Library management

I don't think we'll see the toolset inside X, but double clicking could launch Motion proper. But you're right that a Motion clip in X would be another special clip like Multicam, Sync, Compound, or Photoshop layered file.

And round-trip to Logic could result in a similar "mix-down" file. But at this point I'm still unsure if Apple has plans to push Logic as a DAW. Right now they still advertise it as a Music tool exclusively.

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 18:21 #44770

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one click and everything just opens in Logic X. Of course with full integration of Roles and everything. Wow. That would be a killer feature.

I think it would be even better if FCPX had a roles based bus mixer, and then you could have 95% of logic inside FCPX. I kinda thing that was the goal with FCPX. Soundtrack merged into FCP, and Color brought into FCP. If you wanted to go separate you could do so with third parties (Resolve, ProTools), but for most users they should be able to do excellent work without having to go outside.

THE killer feature would being able to have multiple editors work on the same FCPX project in their given discipline. Editorial, Color and Audio could all be finishing simultaneously.

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Last edit: by tpayton.

FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 20:22 #44780

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I think it would be even better if FCPX had a roles based bus mixer, and then you could have 95% of logic inside FCPX. I kinda thing that was the goal with FCPX. Soundtrack merged into FCP, and Color brought into FCP

There was definitely an Apple job posting dealing with full blown mixing inside of FCPX. I think it was back in October 2013

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 20:42 #44781

hmmm I really don't need or want Logic X round tripping (I think round tripping was killed with FCP X), but I would like to see some of the Soundtrack tools in FCP X! :)
Now that is a request... ;)

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 20:51 #44783

I think it would be even better if FCPX had a roles based bus mixer, and then you could have 95% of logic inside FCPX. I kinda thing that was the goal with FCPX. Soundtrack merged into FCP, and Color brought into FCP. If you wanted to go separate you could do so with third parties (Resolve, ProTools), but for most users they should be able to do excellent work without having to go outside.

THE killer feature would being able to have multiple editors work on the same FCPX project in their given discipline. Editorial, Color and Audio could all be finishing simultaneously.

Regarding multiple editors, we've certainly seen evidence via Alex4D that Apple is at least looking into that kind of functionality. But whether it's on the near term radar is anyone's guess. Personally, I think there's other areas of development such as the ones we're discussing (audio, colour, timeline organization, trimming) that will need to be addressed first before that type of collaborative editing really becomes the factor that's holding the software back.

As far as audio is concerned. This keeps popping up every couple of months. For a while there I was thinking that round-triping to Motion/Logic was the same problem and they'd appear simultaneously. But I'm more inclined to believe Motion round-tripping is the much easier problem. Once you select assets in the timeline to send to Motion, it's very much a one-way street- with Motion project updates dynamically updating in a Motion "Compound Clip".

But if you're taking about sending your ongoing edit to LogicX and having it dynamically update as you continue to make changes in your Project- I think that's a much tougher nut to crack. Unless you're waiting until the edit is locked before you "send to Logic" and if you're going to do that, then Apple might be better served by just improving the FCPXML transfer to Logic.

I think you're right T., improving audio editing and mixing within FCPX to the point where it satisfies the needs of a majority of it's user base is probably the smartest use of time. Those high end productions are undeniably going to a DAW (and probably ProTools)- and there X2Pro as got you covered for $150.

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 20:54 #44784

There was definitely an Apple job posting dealing with full blown mixing inside of FCPX. I think it was back in October 2013

That was up thru most of last year. If it's gone now then hopefully it's been filled. Whether that means we can expect some movement in that area this year is anybody's guess.

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 21:25 #44786

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about Avid MC

Avid has:
*MXF (OP1a) Import/Export (Yes there is plugins but its too expensive)
*XDCAM Import/Export
*AAF Import/Export (yes there is X2Pro for ONLY EXPORT) need often with ProTools and Import need too.
*OMF Import/Export (need often with ProTools)
*Tracks (i do not need organise ROLES i just put sourse to track that i need, voiceover for example)
*Avid very fast, FCPX does not in BIG projects and timeline 52 min and more. I'm working on Avid about 8 years.
*Avid- 4 video editors in one project in the same time (on my work)
*Subcaps in the Avid WOOOW!!!!! there is no plugin for FCPX for fast work with SUBCAPS.



I love Apple and i work on FCPX too. and made on FCPX many films from 39 to 65 min.
but on TV production when I am 52 minutes of film making in 24-48 ours FCPX falls, many crashes, slow work and it is very difficult for understand for many editors who do not want to learn something new.

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 23:21 #44789

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Unless you're waiting until the edit is locked before you "send to Logic" and if you're going to do that, then Apple might be better served by just improving the FCPXML transfer to Logic..

Speaking of "picture lock" i think that is one area where the "puck" of the industry, so to speak, is headed, i.e. the elimination of the need for picture lock. At my shop we have been always hoping that someday we could sweeten audio, and color inside the NLE. Sure audio was great went we went with to SoundTrack or an OMF to ProTools (wow protools was a joy to work in). Sending picture to Color also worked well, but then it all fell apart when even a single frame changed, and then you had to attempt to conform. In the end it made us dread last moment client revisions, or correcting errors we saw internally.

With FCPX, at our shop we never have picture lock. Color correction in FCPX for the most part is very close to what we used to achieve in Apple Color, and while the audio tools need some design help, all the plugins from SoundTrack/Logic are there (well except the spectral waveform view and the decent noise reeducation) and as long as I take the time I can achieve a decent mix ( but frankly it is no fun.)

If you think about why we needed picture lock, it was to allow folks to work concurrently (i.e. a hand off) on the final product as well as allow a dedicated person to use the tools they are comfortable with and best suit the task. (granted there are some workflow areas where picture lock is very help, but that I think is beyond the realm of a NLE).

FCPX has the foundation for being the "super app" that pulls this all together. Audio quality in FCP is excellent, and color quality is also excellent, the only thing holding them back is the UI. I think Apple did a bold move with making color more approachable with the color board experiment, and I'm sure they are constantly reevaluating it. (As an aside, having color corrected film and digital. Color from a Film scan is all over the place, but digital primarily has white balance adjustment and exposure issues. Since FCP really is made for digital, we need those tools primarily, and then be given greater color like 3 way and curves for secondaries and grading.) But at this point they haven't even taken a stab a audio in FCPX. The foundation is there but frankly there is zero UI.

I can't wait to see where it goes. (I just hope it gets there quick!)

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Last edit: by tpayton.

FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 19 Apr 2014 23:44 #44790

I agree with you in theory T., and as X matures it may be the case than a majority of Final Cut Users never need to go outside the NLE (except for GFX- which is pretty diametrically opposed to the toolset of an NLE). I've delivered tones of broadcast spots that were done in X exclusively. Really the ONLY thing we typically punt out is audio, which is usually done in a mix session along with radio spots. I've been trying and trying to get more into Resolve for the past 2 years (I know it's the better tool), but in the end the jobs either don't need it, or there just isn't the budget for it.

But I'm doubtful that any one NLE is ever going to contain the "best in class" tool for cutting, audio, and colour. Especially at the high end- those are highly exclusive islands unto themselves.

Of the low-hanging fruit- A more organized timeline is my most requested feature. Audio is definitely the most obvious next place for FCPX to improve. Trimming is probably third. Colour correction, already pretty good, would be next.

I have to imagine audio is next up to be overhauled this year. If I'm right and Roles are the key to that, then organization could be a side-car benefit.

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 20 Apr 2014 10:36 #44807

about Avid MC
*Subcaps in the Avid WOOOW!!!!! there is no plugin for FCPX for fast work with SUBCAPS.
I haven't worked on Avid for years, but helped a lot of companies working with Avid's subcaps. One of the real big ones even bought 10 or more licenses of legacy FCP to get a better handling for their 'subcaps'.
With the first release of FCP X the options were gone, with 10.1.x they are back.
You can use every 'one text entry title' the same way as 'subcaps' – may be set up your own styles and deal with 100s of subtitles easily changing fonts, outlines, colors, shadows etc.
You even can paste 'rtf styled' text into a title.
All together with roles for speakers etc. FCP X is far better than Avid in this case.

Peter Pim and Billy Ball ;-)

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 21 Apr 2014 06:01 #44833

You know coming from Color Wheel world. I have to say I don't find the "Color Board" that bad it isn't. If you know your Colors you will have no issue with it. The problem I see with the "Color Board" it has not been approved since FCP 7 as in what you can do and modified. If they added curve tool, better way to manage secondary, a tracking tool. Then I think users would be more appreciated.

tpayton you are right how could they not add spectral waveform view from Soundtrack in FCP X??
Is it not there technology, didn't Apple want to pay any licenses fee or are did they compare the numbers with the previous applications and decided to drop it?

Again you are also right about decent noise reeducation, we have this Automatic tool which works horrible if you want to isolate a certain noise. Adding a analyze section using the range tool and given us more option to dial in should be here a big issue. Right?

;)

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 21 Apr 2014 09:57 #44834

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The problem I see with the "Color Board" it has not been approved since FCP 7 as in what you can do and modified. If they added curve tool, better way to manage secondary, a tracking tool. Then I think users would be more appreciated.
;)

I'd also like to be able to tweak things in less than 1% increments. If we're in an 8 bit world then surely 1/256 would make sense. Do they think users really need % ?

Key framing of colour shifts, especially in masks.

And being able to rename a colour correction would be very welcome. I sometimes end up with 10-12 corrections and remembering which is which is a problem for me!

Being able to toggle just 'this' colour correction while in the colour board instead of toggling all colour on off (keyboard shortcut) or having to back out of the colour board to toggle it via the switch. Did I miss something obvious here...being able to disable just 'this' correction?

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FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 21 Apr 2014 13:43 #44837

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I hope to see a similar strategy to NukeStudio. The Foundry is putting "some" of Nuke into an editing timeline, some of their other products in, but keeping the separate products, because each does its own job the best. I think Apple is going in that direction.

I also hope they continue the DSLR model they touted at NAB Show last year. You buy the camera body, then go buy lenses, rigs, etc, that you specifically need. Keeps costs down, keeps clutter to a minimum.

Color Correction, as someone stated, is good "if you know your color theory". If you don't, the color wheel is not "intuitive". Less of one color equals more of its complementary color. You can not subtract a color, and not introduce more of another. The board make is seem you can do the the physically impossible. If they put the complementary colors on the bottom half, I'd have happy.

I agree that separating the three panes is more work. And not talking to coloring control surfaces sucks, and makes it nonprofessional, IMHO.

Audio mixing, yes, we need a REAL solution. XML to Logic Pro X plain flat out doesn't work. The Logic team has to get on that, and FCPX is not a priority to them, as far as I can see. So that's a problem with FCPX moving forward.

The job ad Apple had posted was not for an audio mixing in FCPX specifically. It was for someone who was experienced creating audio tools for video products "such as Final Cut Pro X". That could cover a lot of ground, but I do believe that audio mixing and output are being worked on. The design phase of how it will work on the screen, for the end user is the biggest hurdle. Once they figure an elegant, easy solution, the coding will come along quickly. But, the team takes a great amount of time to work out the end user experience details first, and very carefully. That's a huge amount of time, to get it right.

I'm looking forward to the next few years of development from the FCPX/Motion/Compressor dev teams.

And fill out that feedback page! They do in fact read them and catalog them. The more requests for a specific feature, the more it gets moved up towards the top of the massive To-Do list. So PLEASE fill that out when you run into an issue! I state this because I know LOTS of folks who come to me personally, and in forums, who get help, but never follow through and fill that page out.

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Last edit: by BenB.

FCPX 10.1.2 PRE-RELEASE DISCUSSION 21 Apr 2014 14:36 #44841

Can't believe no-one has heard anything about 10.1.2. There must be SOMEONE outside Apple that knows what's coming. These things get leaked. Just take a look at macrumors and the iPhone 6 stuff.

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